WHATS THE BEST COLD HARDY PALM

cometmtrs · Post by **cometmtrs** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 9:23 pm

IM IN NORTHEASTERN OKLAHOMAAND I WANT TO PLANT PALMS IN MY YARD THIS YEAR ,WHICH WOULD BE THE BEST

Paul Ont · Post by **Paul Ont** » Fri Jan 23, 2009 5:17 am

Check out Amazing Gardens. http://www.amazinggardens.com/
Easily the best suited to help with your needs... Good luck!

hardyjim · Post by **hardyjim** » Sat Jan 24, 2009 10:37 am

Trachys(wagnerianus,fortunei,nainital) and Butia are probably the most cold hardy trunking palms,both would need protection during extreme cold.
Needle palms and certain Sabals("clumping"some sabals grow a"trunk" in time )needles MAY be more hardy in time but you can't beat sabals for bomb proof reliability,especially in your area,S.louisisana, S.brazoria,S.birminghamn are great ones to try and grow reasonably fast for sabals.

Randall · Post by **Randall** » Sun Jan 25, 2009 12:21 am

Kansas · Post by **Kansas** » Sun Jan 25, 2009 7:19 am

Sabal Minor is your best bet. For me, Needles die in the first Winter. I have planted both Needles and Minors in Topeka Kansas and the Needle died the first Winter, the Minor is still going three years later. I think Wichita Ks. might be in your
zone, and there are Minors (Birmingham) in Wichita that are HUGE at a church. He doesn't protect them at all except for having them on a South faceing wall.

hardyjim · Post by **hardyjim** » Sun Jan 25, 2009 8:17 am

Needle palms if protected the first few years are very hardy!
I really think Sabals have a better survival rate because they are not as prone to spear pull,S.louisisana,birminghamn,brazoria all grow fast for Sabals,especially Louisisana,my Birminghamn and Brazoria will probably rival their growth speed in time,(they are to small to compare to Louisisana right now)My Louisiana put out 2 leaves Aug-Sept after just being planted in August!pretty impressive for a Sabal and not bad at all for any palm-

cometmtrs · Post by **cometmtrs** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 6:16 pm

ALL THE INFO IS REALLY APPRECIATED .I WANT TO PLANT LARGE TREES ,AT LEAST 8 TO 10 FEET TALL PROBABLY WILL GET THEM FROM TEXAS WHICH OF THE ONES MENTIONED WOULD BE BEST SUITED CONSIDERING THE SIZE? ALSO PLANTING CLOSE TO MY POOL ARE THESE OKAY WITH LOTS OF WATER

hardyjim · Post by **hardyjim** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 6:59 pm

None of the Sabals mentioned(or hystrix) that I recall will grow that tall,there are some Sabals that are trunking,Trachycarpus is your best bet and would probably survive there with protection during severe arctic outbreaks and probably would anyway?

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 7:16 pm

welcome to the site, cometmtrs.

All palms need superb drainage.
Trachycarpus hates windy, extreme heat sites.
In our hot desert area, they're more suited for only morning sun.

Even though Trachycarpus like water, they (and other palms) need very good drainage.
Not suited to wet boggy sites.

I don't think ANY palms will tolerate chlorine splashes from pool-play.

Maybe take you camera along when you're shopping?
Barb

cometmtrs · Post by **cometmtrs** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 9:55 pm

THANKS FOR THE INFO I LIVE IN A RIVER VALLY WE HAVE GREAT SOIL AND DRAINAGE BUT WHEN IT RAINS THE POOL WILL OVERFLOW AND THE LOWER GROUND MAY STAY WET FOR SEVERAL DAYS ,LOST A BEAUTIFUL CEDAR THAT WAY . DO YOU THINK THE WINDMILL WILL DO WELL AND THE BIRMINGHAM CAN THEY TAKE THE 100 DEGREE HEAT WE HAVE HERE ?ALSO I HAVE AN IRRIGATION SYSTEM ,USUALLY WATERS 2 TIMES DAILEY 15 MIN EACH TIME IS THAT OK

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Thu Jan 29, 2009 7:01 am

U.S. hardiness zone map here:
http://www.thegardenhelper.com/map/ushzmap.html

Since you want trunking palms, the Needle palm (which clumps, never forming a trunk), will probably not suit you.

Any soil conditions that kill a cedar (which love moisture/humidity and hate hot dry winds) will also kill out-of-zone plants (palms). Optimum growing conditions will help a palm if winter temps don't kill it.

Research your area's winter low temps. You'll likely need to protect your palm(s) for winter with temporary cages (either leaf filled with supplemental heat, or 6ml plastic-covered wood-framed enclosure, all with supplemental heat such as C-9 lights or ceramic heat for very cold nights).

I've got a pool too, and any rain event that overflows the pool should be prevented by backwashing your filter to lower the level prior to a huge rainfall (or lower the level on "Waste" setting). Chlorinated pool water is death for all plants. You'll never be able to grow anything where the backwash line empties pool water onto your property.

I know from experience that big coniferous trees and leaves from deciduous trees near your pool create a mess, necessitating hours of work cleaning screens. Windstorms deposit all that stuff in the pool. I blew a pool pump that way.

After 30 years of pool "experience", the only low-maintenance trees I would place around a pool deck are--yup--you guessed it--plastic plants. But they're ugly.

A viable alternative is to keep palms in containers, easily moved to your pool deck for summer enjoyment, which can be moved into a garage or basement or foyer before the onset of winter.

While we Palms North people are "all about" pushing zones and growing palms outside, it's an expensive and disappointing hobby if you miss a step in winter protection or plant your palm in anything less than ideal soil conditions.

Trying to save you some grief and dollars (big palms cost mega bucks).

Barb

hardyjim · Post by **hardyjim** » Thu Jan 29, 2009 11:39 am

Right on Barb,I forgot to mention about the pool water-

cometmtrs · Post by **cometmtrs** » Thu Jan 29, 2009 7:28 pm

THE POOL OVERFLOW WOULD BE ON THE LOWER GROUND WHERE I PLAN TO PLANT WILL BE MORE ELEVATED .AS FOR THE CHLORINE IVE ALSO HAD POOLS FOR 30 YRS OR SO AND HAVE NEVER HAD A PROBLEM WITH IT HARMING MY PLANTS .I THINK THE CEDAR BEING ON THE LOWER LEVEL WAS BEING KEPT CONSTANTLY MOIST FROM SPLASHING AND OVERFLOW . BACK TO THE PALMS THERE IS A GENTLEMAN IN THE TULSA AREA WITH SEVERAL LARGE PALMS THERE ARE HALF A DOZEN THAT ARE LARGE MAYBE BIRMINGHAM AND NOT PROTECTED AT ALL ,SEEM TO BE DOING FINE ,HE ALSO HAS SEVERAL LARGE TREES WRAPPED IN INSULATION ,IVE TRIED TO CONTACT HIM BUT HAVENT BEEN ABLE TO CATCH HIM AT HOME DOES ANYONE KNOW WHO THIS PERSON IS?IF NOY IF I TAKE SOME PICS OF THESE CAN YOU HELP ME IDETIFY THEM THANKS

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 7:22 am

TULSA AREA WITH SEVERAL LARGE PALMS THERE ARE HALF A DOZEN THAT ARE LARGE MAYBE BIRMINGHAM AND NOT PROTECTED AT ALL ,SEEM TO BE DOING FINE ,HE ALSO HAS SEVERAL LARGE TREES WRAPPED IN INSULATION

That's good news.

There are lots of people here who can ID your pictures.
Looking forward to seeing them.
Barb

Gonz · Post by **Gonz** » Sat Jan 31, 2009 6:41 pm

cometmtrs wrote:THANKS FOR THE INFO I LIVE IN A RIVER VALLY WE HAVE GREAT SOIL AND DRAINAGE BUT WHEN IT RAINS THE POOL WILL OVERFLOW AND THE LOWER GROUND MAY STAY WET FOR SEVERAL DAYS ,LOST A BEAUTIFUL CEDAR THAT WAY . DO YOU THINK THE WINDMILL WILL DO WELL AND THE BIRMINGHAM CAN THEY TAKE THE 100 DEGREE HEAT WE HAVE HERE ?ALSO I HAVE AN IRRIGATION SYSTEM ,USUALLY WATERS 2 TIMES DAILEY 15 MIN EACH TIME IS THAT OK

I am in South Tulsa near the Arkansas River.
I have a windmill that I bought from Southwoods Garden Center about 3 years ago. It was about 12 inches high when bought and now about 5ft at top of crown.
Just planted a 7ft next to it last august and it is doing fine.
Ordered the largest they could ship and the bushiest 9ft crown.
It was close to 500 pounds in that pot and I had some problems at first just getting it to my home because the huge semi could not get through the property entrance so I hired a smaller truck to pick it up from the larger trucking company.
Planted it by myself as well.....took off 2 days from work to do this.

Right now it is covered with one of those Plankets. And it was not affected by the ice storm the other day.
Only just covered it 3 weeks ago. Should have gave it some sun today since it was close to 70 degrees.

They are on the east side of my home and fully protected from the winds but less protection from winds coming out of the south.

My palms love this clay based river soil.

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Sat Jan 31, 2009 8:50 pm

Hi Gonz, welcome aboard.

That's one healthy palm to grow four feet in 3 years! It obviously likes your soil and microclimate on the east.
And a 7 footer...wow.

Hope you'll be able to post some pictures soon.

What have your lowest temps been this winter?
70 degrees! that's quite the warm spell for January!
Barb

serj · Post by **serj** » Sun Feb 01, 2009 12:36 pm

I think what the best choise for palm entusiast's, who is living at zone 6 or 7, is trachicarpus wagnerianus. Especially if you have wet climate. This palm is very pretty and not enough tolerant for hard freeze. I'm hear what this palm is groving at Iсeland.

Gonz · Post by **Gonz** » Sun Feb 01, 2009 9:05 pm

lucky1 wrote:Hi Gonz, welcome aboard.

That's one healthy palm to grow four feet in 3 years! It obviously likes your soil and microclimate on the east.
And a 7 footer...wow.

Hope you'll be able to post some pictures soon.

What have your lowest temps been this winter?
70 degrees! that's quite the warm spell for January!
Barb

I think the lowest temp was about 12F during the ice storm the other day. A giant green ice ball for 2 days.
Hoping I do have some sort of microclimate. It gets warmer in that area with full sun until noon.

Was away from mid Oct to Jan 1st and was told below 15F 2 or 3 times during the night.
Pretty mild so far this winter.

I think I will uncover the crown for the rest of the week because of the full sun.
Need to look it over.
Suppose to be above 60f Thurs. and Fri..(days)
Nights below freezing for first three days but it should be ok.

Will clean things up and take pictures early spring.

cometmtrs · Post by **cometmtrs** » Sun Feb 01, 2009 9:18 pm

great to here from someone in tulsa im actually in bartlesville but my businesses are in tulsa . im really excited to here the palms are doing good i dont want to wait for years for them to get big im planning on buying several 8 fot palms . have you seen the palms that are near 51 and memorial these are the ones i was speaking of the trunking ones are at least 10 ft tall and the ones i believe to be birminghams are 7 to 8foot tall

beaver · Post by **beaver** » Mon Feb 02, 2009 5:06 am

Here in Belgium we had -18°C for a couple of nights. TF, butia, jubaea and chamaerops have severe leafburn or are dead. Only trithrinax campestris survived without a scratch!

Paul Ont · Post by **Paul Ont** » Mon Feb 02, 2009 7:36 am

beaver wrote:Here in Belgium we had -18°C for a couple of nights. TF, butia, jubaea and chamaerops have severe leafburn or are dead. Only trithrinax campestris survived without a scratch!

Really? Wow! I'll have to do some digging to see what I can find out about the species...

Has anyone else noticed extreme hardiness in T. campestris? I've not tried it, but I have heard of rumors of hardiness to -15C, maybe there is something to this...

hardyjim · Post by **hardyjim** » Mon Feb 02, 2009 7:28 pm

I have a very small one in the front yard,the leaves are pretty fried but it is still solid and no spear pull so far after lows of at least 12F

cometmtrs · Post by **cometmtrs** » Mon Feb 02, 2009 7:34 pm

here are some of the palms i was speaking of ,they looked better a couple of weeks ago before we had the ice storm but they have suvived many can anyone tell me what they are,hope the pics downloaded

cometmtrs · Post by **cometmtrs** » Mon Feb 02, 2009 7:50 pm

more pics

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Mon Feb 02, 2009 9:49 pm

OMG

The wrapped one looks so good...Why didn't he wrap the others?

Will leave the ID to other folks.
Barb

serj · Post by **serj** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 2:24 am

http://users.skynet.be/fa950006/hiver2008-2009.html - here was described about "crush test" palms in Belgium. This palm was damaged by freeze near -15 -20 C. So, winner's are trachycarpus wagnerianus and sabal minor.

cometmtrs · Post by **cometmtrs** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 4:13 am

barb last winter 07 we had a really bad ice storm every tree in northeast oklahoma was either damaged or uprooted i remember driving by the palms and thinking wow they came through in great shape i drive by them almost dailey and they looked fabulous the folowing spring

Barrie · Post by **Barrie** » Wed Feb 04, 2009 1:47 pm

I'm always impressed with the vigor and absolute rock solid performance of Sabal 'Birmingham'. Even this seedling that's just showing the first divided leaves has been untouched by a very nasty late December cold snap.

Cheers, Barrie.

Feb.04-09

Gonz · Post by **Gonz** » Wed Feb 04, 2009 7:31 pm

cometmtrs wrote:great to here from someone in tulsa im actually in bartlesville but my businesses are in tulsa . im really excited to here the palms are doing good i dont want to wait for years for them to get big im planning on buying several 8 fot palms . have you seen the palms that are near 51 and memorial these are the ones i was speaking of the trunking ones are at least 10 ft tall and the ones i believe to be birminghams are 7 to 8foot tall

I remember those.....west of Fontana.
Have not seen in a while. I moved to Tulsa in fall of 1980 and remember seeing them for the first time.
Also remember the pink insulation wrapped around them back then.
Going to get a closer look at those palms this spring.

The winters has gotten milder here in Tulsa through the years so I am hoping my palms will be around for a long time.
Some of my neighbors think I am crazy.
We will see.

cometmtrs · Post by **cometmtrs** » Wed Feb 04, 2009 8:55 pm

still dont know what they are birmingham or what anybody have any ibea

Cali-wanna-b · Post by **Cali-wanna-b** » Thu Feb 05, 2009 2:14 pm

still dont know what they are birmingham or what anybody have any ibea

They sure look like birminghams to me.........20+ year old birminghams at that. The wrapped one looks like a butia to me.

cometmtrs · Post by **cometmtrs** » Thu Feb 05, 2009 6:33 pm

thanx for the info ,cant ever catch the person that owns them at home

Cali-wanna-b · Post by **Cali-wanna-b** » Fri Feb 06, 2009 2:54 pm

thanx for the info ,cant ever catch the person that owns them at home

Just keep tabs on them. When they set seeds grab all you can get and send them out to everyone here.....LOL.

They might not look like it, but those are some pretty special palms.

Craig

Laaz · Post by **Laaz** » Fri Feb 06, 2009 3:20 pm

They look like regular old Palmettos, probably bought somewhere south and trucked in. The wrapped palm is indeed a Butia.

Cali-wanna-b · Post by **Cali-wanna-b** » Fri Feb 06, 2009 5:30 pm

Hey Laaz!! Hope all is well!!

You have more hands on experience than me with sabals, but those palms look like they have been there a while and have all the traits of a birmingham. I am curious why you think they are regular sabals. The palms being located in NE Oklahoma makes me think they are not regular sabals. NE Tulsa, Oklahoma area is a 6a/b climate, unless recently planted, I don't think regular sabals would be long term survivors in Tulsa. There are some well known mature sabal birminghams in the area so it's very possible they are offspring of local birminghams.

Craig

cometmtrs · Post by **cometmtrs** » Fri Feb 06, 2009 6:07 pm

the palms are at least 15 yrs old ive driven by them for years .there are also sevral others in the area with them their yards back up to the road and in the summer you cant help but notice them. im going to keep trying to contact the people maybe theyll give me a few seeds

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Fri Feb 06, 2009 6:29 pm

Some look even older than 15 years.

Remember to take your camera with you when spring arrives.
They'd probably be happy if you'd take the seeds before they drop

Barb

Laaz · Post by **Laaz** » Sat Feb 07, 2009 6:42 am

Hey Craig. It is possible they are birminghams, but birminghams are supposed to be very slow growers so I doubt they would be anywhere near that size from seed in 15 years. In a climate like that they would be even slower. Palmettos are a slow as well & I don't see how these will replace their crowns in a climate like that. Down here Palmettos are sold hurricane cut & it takes 3-5 years to regrow their crowns so they look halfway decent. If you look at this photo, this frond looks like the result of a old hurricane cut...

Now look at the palmettos for sale with hurricane cuts...

cometmtrs · Post by **cometmtrs** » Sat Feb 07, 2009 8:18 pm

these could be much older but ive only really noticed them for about 15 years that was when one was planted right on the rqad in plain veiw . at the time it was planted it was about 6ft tall not a birmingham though i believe it was like the other it was wrapped each winter . also the winters here are not that cold it only reaches the teens a few times a year and rarely stays below freezing for more than a couple of days.the low last nite was 60 and its been in the 70 s for the last 3 days

themes · Post by **themes** » Mon Feb 09, 2009 6:14 am

Zone 8b growing the following unprotected..btw had some -7 here...

Trach Fortuneii and Wagnerianus
Butia Capitata, Odorata and Eriospatha
Pheonix Canariensis
Rhapidopphylum Hystrix
Trithrinax Campestris, Acathocoma
Wash Robusta
Chamaerops Humilis and Cerifera
Chamaedorea Radicalis
Jubaea Chilensis
Brahea Armata

All are fine at the moment. For the butias Erio is the best for cold IMO and is even putting out growth in the winter.

PalmsNorth.com

WHATS THE BEST COLD HARDY PALM

WHATS THE BEST COLD HARDY PALM

Needle palm is the most hardy. n/m

THANKS

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