Cycad scale.

Laaz · Post by **Laaz** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 7:40 pm

Recently I have heard from a lot of people about their cycads having Asian scale infestations. Here is a quick procedure I use any time I get cycads from an area that is know to have a scale problem.

1. Remove all infected leaves (I remove all leaves)
2. 1/2 bottle of Hartz flea & tick shampoo for cats mixed with a large bucket of warn water.
3. Submerge the entire plant, root and all in the mixture for an hour.
4. Remove the plant and let dry for a few hours.
5. Inspect for any visible scale.
6. Plant in a container & water in with a mixture of Bayer tree & shrub insect control.
7. Spray with Ultrafine oil once a week until you get you first flush & it hardens off.
8. Continue with the oil treatment for two months.

Asian scale will get down into the roots of the plant as well. This is the reason I submerge the entire plant. I use the Bayer tree & shrub treatment every 2 months throughout the year. Systemics are the best at controlling scale. There are many brands available but Bayer is one that an be found at any box store as well as your local walmart.

Just what works for me & may be a help to other here.

Kansas · Post by **Kansas** » Tue Jan 08, 2008 4:45 am

Definatly will try that!!!

Dean W. · Post by **Dean W.** » Tue Jan 08, 2008 7:00 am

Laaz,

I've heard coffee grounds can be used with great effect. I can't recall if you use it to spray or drench the soil, but the scale dosen't like it.

Dean

Laaz · Post by **Laaz** » Tue Jan 08, 2008 8:56 am

Dean the best I have found to work are the systemics, they are taken up in the roots & are passed on to the rest of the plant material.

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Tue Jan 08, 2008 9:59 pm

Todd, I'm printing out your Anti-Scale recipe in case my coffee grounds don't work.
Old (cooled) coffee grounds are sprinkled around the plant on top of the soil right to the base ahead of a regular watering.
So far so good.

But my C.revoluta is pretty hyper now

Barb

virtualpalm · Post by **virtualpalm** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 4:30 am

All, here is the link to the coffee article that I mentioned a few days ago:

http://www.cycad.org/Documents/Broome-Coffee-2007.pdf

Jody

Kansas · Post by **Kansas** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 4:55 am

Jody, You are also a mind reader I see. Just last night I was thinking I needed to look and see if their was an article on coffee grounds for scale anywhere.
Thanks a million.

Dean W. · Post by **Dean W.** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 6:54 am

I knew it could be used for scale.

Fortunetly, I don't have a problem with scale.

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 8:49 am

Wonderful news...wonderful!

Coffee grounds will never again go into my compost pile.

BTW, I love how Tom Broome writes.
Easy to understand, not full of chemical formulas...just useful information.

I've never met him, but I get a picture of a man who is a natural scientist, and just plain curious.
Reminds me of a favourite uncle who made math simple by relating it to everyday occurrences.

I'm thrilled the solution isn't to buy more chemicals.

Tom Broome, our gratitude for saving our beloved Cycads!

Thank you for posting this, Mr. Haynes!

Barb

Knnn · Post by **Knnn** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 9:06 am

I second Barb's sentiments

Steve

macario · Post by **macario** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 1:55 pm

macario · Post by **macario** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 1:58 pm

I am personally prefer the chemicals over anything natural. Natural route takes to long to work in my opinion. Laaz I am with you If its small enough to dip I dip lol. If not I have a nice 2 1/2 gallon spray pump and I pump it with pressure and spray using a few applications. I tried natural ways to keep scale and mites off my over wintered palms. I had to apply the natural stuff over and over the whole winter until the mites and scale died. I use Chemicals once in the fall and it lasts me the entire winter. I know its your preference so dont hate me for being honest

The bayer tree and shrub treatment is awsome!!

virtualpalm · Post by **virtualpalm** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 7:29 pm

macario wrote:I am personally prefer the chemicals over anything natural. Natural route takes to long to work in my opinion. Laaz I am with you If its small enough to dip I dip lol. If not I have a nice 2 1/2 gallon spray pump and I pump it with pressure and spray using a few applications. I tried natural ways to keep scale and mites off my over wintered palms. I had to apply the natural stuff over and over the whole winter until the mites and scale died. I use Chemicals once in the fall and it lasts me the entire winter. I know its your preference so dont hate me for being honest The bayer tree and shrub treatment is awsome!!

The alkaloids in coffee grounds seem to have some level of systemic properties in cycads. When applied as a top-dress mulch, the efficacy literally lasts for months -- and grounds are a WHOLE lot safer (for humans), environmentally preferable, and cheaper than even the less toxic nicotinoids like imidacloprid (the active ingredient in Bayer Tree & Shrub). After using coffee grounds on CAS here in Miami, I couldn't imagine using any kind of chemical again. Just my .02.

Jody

Dean W. · Post by **Dean W.** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 6:41 am

I'm with, Jody on this one. Not only can they have systemic properties they also act as a mild fertlizer.

Dean

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 7:46 am

Plus, didn't the grounds produce the desired effects after only 10 hours?
Fast enough for me.

I used coffee grounds on C.revoluta and my 6-foot hibiscus last year.
Hibiscus sulked for a month but Cycad is fine.
I was initially worried about acidification of soil; the article covers that concern.

Collecting grounds in a bucket for use this year.
But I do wonder what effect coffee grounds will have on soil-based organisms.
Barb

virtualpalm · Post by **virtualpalm** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 8:23 am

lucky1 wrote:Collecting grounds in a bucket for use this year.
But I do wonder what effect coffee grounds will have on soil-based organisms.
Barb

One thing to keep in mind (I can't remember if Tom covered this in his article) is that if the grounds sit in a closed container and grow mold before you use them, the efficacy is reduced dramatically. I found this happens in as little as 4-6 weeks. I assume that there are fungi capable of breaking down the alkyloids, thereby rendering the grounds essentially inert from the perspective of having insecticidal properties.

As for your question regarding soil microbes, I really don't know. I am a firm believer that is it more important to try to create a healthy soil than to simply fertilize the plants without taking the soil into consideration. Coffee grounds have been used with great success as a top-dress mulch (or even the primary basis of a growing medium) in producing extremely healthy cycads, and they have long been recommended for roses by those who grow them (I can't speak to this latter point, as I know nothing about roses).

Hope this helps.

Jody

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 8:43 am

Yes thanks for the mold reminder, Jody.
I did read that, too.
Maybe keep the bucket in the freezer until it's full, thaw with lid off, and use up the supply immediately.
I certainly have enough plants in pots, let alone the perennials.

I'm going to find an earthworm, place into a bucket with native soil, and see what happens when coffee grounds are added.
The worm may not be representative of soil organisms generally, but at least I'll be able to see it.

I'm hugely (not scientifically) interested in miccorhizae...and understand fungi feed miccor, which allows nutrients to be accessible to the plant in a symbiotic relationship.
So my quest is whether coffee grounds harm/kill/assist fungi.

Certainly chemicals do.

Barb

Dean W. · Post by **Dean W.** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 10:58 am

Cofee Grounds are good for the microorganisms in the soil too.

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 11:33 am

It would be great if that's true...any literature on it?

I managed to find an earthworm...he's in a bucket with soil in the warm basement...a few coffee grounds on top.
I'll see how he's doing tomorrow.

Barb

Dean W. · Post by **Dean W.** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 1:21 pm

Barb,

Let me do some research on the microorganisms.

Your earthworm castings will be great. I put earthworm castings on a Photos (House plant) before and the thing went bonkers. I mean it grew like crazy.

Dean

Dean W. · Post by **Dean W.** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 1:58 pm

Barb,

Here are some links to what I was describing. I think it mainly that the Coffee Grounds are feeding the microorganisms. http://www.viewnews.com/2006/VIEW-Jun-0 ... 13902.html
http://www.sunset.com/sunset/garden/art ... 32,00.html

Dean

Dean W. · Post by **Dean W.** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 2:03 pm

I spread the Coffee Grounds in my compost piles around outdoor plants, etc..

If I have a problem w/ scale I'll use it then. I get the grounds for free at a local Starbucks. I buy a Coffee and I get free grounds. Not a bad deal in my mind.

Dean

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 10:56 am

Yesterday found an earthworm (no small feat in February in Canada!), put him into a trowelful of native soil in a clean
yoghurt container, into the warm basement, lid on (airholes):
Added a few yummy potato peelings.

Covered with 1/4 inch of dry cool coffee grounds.

Today (24 hours later), he's fine (obviously happy to be in warmish soil).
Decidedly unscientific, but my conclusion is: if coffee grounds kill scale after 10 hours,
obviously no harmful effects to larger organisms.

I'll check earthworm daily for longer term effects.

I've been adding coffee grounds to my compost pile, maybe now I'll just add it straight to plants
from what folks have reported.
Barb

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 11:03 am

Dean, that first link you provided addressed moldy coffee grounds.

Suggested not to throw it away as it's part of the breakdown process.

I think mold is a fungus (versus bacteria), therefore it's nature's way of breaking it down.
Fungus feeds other organisms, other organisms feed the larger ones, so on.

Reminds me of a joke:
A mother calls her son at college and asks him if he's eating right.
Yes he says.
Are you eating anything green, she asks.
Just the bread, Mom, was the answer.

Barb

Dean W. · Post by **Dean W.** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 11:10 am

LOL! I'm glad to see your worm is doing fine. Where did you find he/she (she/he)? You know they go both ways! LOL!!! Did I come up with enough scientific evidence for you? I know the nitrogen feeds the microrganisms, etc.

Dean

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 11:14 am

Dean,
Found him an inch from foundation of the house,
Would've had to use a pick-axe anywhere else

Yup, enough info for this doubter...

Thanks.
Barb

Dean W. · Post by **Dean W.** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 11:16 am

LOL! Keep em warm!

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 11:18 am

Next to the woodstove on the warm basement floor, the little guy's probably dancing the jig.
Barb

Dean W. · Post by **Dean W.** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 12:04 pm

Now you got me wanting to start raising some worms.

Dean

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 12:13 pm

Each year I want to, but never get around to it.
Just think, free castings...no finer soil amendment.

It must be the cheapest hobby one could have...no tools/kits to buy,
no 4H dues

, no vet fees or parvo virus pills,
no specialized feed to buy, no grow lights.

And then no potting soil to purchase!
Barb

Dean W. · Post by **Dean W.** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 12:16 pm

Your right! I was googling it when I got this message. I have like 50-pouds of Coffee Grounds. Where do I start?

Dean

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 2:12 pm

I'm going to mix coffee grounds into media when I transplant this year.

For worms? well, under piles of leaves mostly.

Barb

Dean W. · Post by **Dean W.** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 2:15 pm

I bought a dozen night crawlers. Now I need to grow them out. What do you do, Barb?

Dean

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 2:20 pm

I'll post to reply to Off Topic, OK?

Barb

virtualpalm · Post by **virtualpalm** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 6:28 pm

lucky1 wrote:Today (24 hours later), he's fine (obviously happy to be in warmish soil).
Decidedly unscientific, but my conclusion is: if coffee grounds kill scale after 10 hours,
obviously no harmful effects to larger organisms.

I'll check earthworm daily for longer term effects.

I've been adding coffee grounds to my compost pile, maybe now I'll just add it straight to plants
from what folks have reported.
Barb

Bart, did you water it in or just add the grounds to the top of the soil? The insecticidal properties come mainly from the "second pass coffee" that comes from water dissolving the alkyloids. I doubt you would see much of an immediate effect with dry grounds -- even on scale. I would suggest that you poke some drain holes in the bottom of the container and water the soil every few days and see if that has any effect on the worm.

Jody

Dean W. · Post by **Dean W.** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 6:35 pm

Her name is Barb. I doubt you will see any negative effect to the worms. Worms love Coffee Grounds!

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 7:20 pm

Jody, thanks for the reminder.
That was in the literature.

My one worm is now in the company of a dozen nightcrawlers.
I will use second pass coffee next occasion.

If anything, I expected dry grounds to irritate the worm's soft body.
Didn't look any worse for wear 24 hours later.

Thanks ever so much Jody for helping us with this stuff.
Our palms and cycads will sure benefit from our new knowledge.

Barb

virtualpalm · Post by **virtualpalm** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 8:04 pm

Dean W. wrote:Her name is Barb.

Typo... sorry.

Dean W. · Post by **Dean W.** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 8:38 pm

That's okay just wanted you to know.

Dean W. · Post by **Dean W.** » Sun Feb 24, 2008 8:29 am

FYI! I was told that Coffee grounds hold little value as a worm food and that i should use peat moss instead.

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