Just an update. I found 2 at a local nursery for $5.00 each. He remember me from last year and asked what other cold hardys I like. I told him to get some big needles, trachy's with 6' of trunk and 5 gallon sabals minors......LOL....hey he asked. He was very suprised that with a little or no protection, all of these species will survive in our climate.