Amazing gardens has McCurtain seeds. I have seedlings, but they are too small to ship right now. I think you can occasionally find "Cape hatterras" sourced seeds, but I can't think of a supplier. You may also consider the Arkansas form (sold by both Austin in Little Rock, and Amazing Gardens, which is essentially the same as McCurtain) the NE Texas form (more dwarf, but still very close to McCurtain), and the northern forms from above the fall line in Alabama, if you can find them.

I can't speak to the general hardiness of any of the forms, even with light protection they fail in my climate after 1-2 years. Oh, and are only useful as ornamentals in their first season!

Thanks paul.

I know RPS has almost every sabal variation that i can think of, just not at this point. AS far as Mcurtain, ive found quite a few soures state its hardy to -25C. To ensure survival of these palms, id have to a) wit a few years till they start to get some good size on em b) make sure their dry during the winter c) heating cables.

Youve made that point very clear, just becasue it survives, doesnt mean it will be anything good to look at. Survival is trivial if the plant is jsut a mass of crappy loking leaves. Ive found a few sites state that it will regrow , even if its totaly killed to the ground. Other then that i havnt read anything stating how well it does grow back after such a harsh winter ( youve showed me quite a few pics of what can happen).

Ive ordered some fortunei seeds, as well some naini tal. Im still waitin on my nanus seeds to pop. They arent getting heat, just normal room temps of 16-20C.

"quite a few soures state its hardy to -25C."

The thing about the numbers is that they may survive this but not all season long.
Most of these climate where they grow do not have prolonged cold like we can have up north.

If they do,it usually warms back up afterwords,so they may stay frozen for a month
and then warm back up into the 60s (F)

Thats what im going to try to achieve once i get some plants to experiment with 😈 There ordered, and on their way..

Always experiment. I and others can give advice based on experience, but until you've killed a few yourself (or nearly killed) you won't know what the limits are... This can be very specific: to region, city, even micro climate. We can give info based on a cold climate, but you have, as you know, further complications that make our info useful but not universally applicable.

May I ask which forms you have ordered? Chances are I've tried and killed some of them here 😈

I've got 100 of McCurtain seeds on their way to me, I can't wait to see how they do!

The only ones they had were minor, and louisiana. So i stuck with the regular minor. As for trachy, I only got fortunei and Naini tal. I remember you saying sabal minor was the least damaged ( although totaly usless in regards to ornamental value the way you protected it) out what you mentioned you had. Over all you stated T fortunai to have the best chance here, due to the fact at how easy it can recover from total defoliation ( and in jims case, even got them to survive by trunk cutting....)

To my knowledge, naini tal is slightly hardier then fortunai ( please correct me if im werong in your experience)

Cameron... 😡 LOL im kidding. Let me know how they go dude!!!

Canadian plant, Cameron nice to see your going to try Sabal sp. from seed to plant. I hope you are young. I have many seed grown S.birmingham, S. minor, S.riverside. They grow so sloooooow.Most are still in strap leaf stage after 3 to 4 years.Try W. filifera and W. robusta W.filifusta seeds to grow in containers if you already haven`t.At least you`ll have some palms to look at while the sabal`s grow.

John

i've got few sabal brazoria's. they are not slow as minor or birmingham. it might be hardy as minor or less. mine are just seedlings, in few years we'll see. i got seeds last summer,now 3rd leaf is growing. it might be fast as trachy.

I've never had a Sabal minor survive a winter yet......I'm really disapointed in them. I gave some NE Texas types to by brother in Fairfax, VA (just west of Wash DC) and his are already seeding! They don't survive -18C when young. I'm not sure what the 'key factor' is but I can't get them to survive and I'm in the tropics compared to some of you guys. Bill MA has some monster minors....it will be interesting to see how they survive this winter since he's not protecting them.

Tim- I've said this before, but will repeat it here. I have had 2 minors 'survive' winters here. They die back to the ground and send up 1/2 leaf before fall the next year. Pretty pathetic IMO. The one that I have in the ground now is in a slightly heated palm hut. As you said, any temperature approaching -18C will KILL them, and, in my experience, a single low down to -15C can cause serious damage in new plantings.

So, in zone 5a, I have only had success with minor if it is 1) Dry (wet leaves rot the leaves) and 2) heated. I do wonder what will happen after they've had several (say 5) seasons in the ground. Will they be hardier? Probably yes, but I don't think there is ANY data available in places with long cold, wet, winters.

The ecotype has not mattered to me at all. They are all equally poor!

In regards to the cold hardiness of sabals.....

I was reading gaias garden ( book in permaculture), and a butty of mine ws reading a book on roots, as well the book called tips and techniques for gardeners, they all suggest starting plants with large taproots in the ground. An excample are nut trees. When you plant them in a container, you inevitably stunt the tap root. In stead of heading down , deeper and deeper, its trained to loop around the pot. When you plant them straight into the ground, you dont let the taproot blocked as much, or wind around.... it goes straight down in search for more water.

None of the books said how much this effects cold harniness, but it also effects the overall growth. If you dont have to distub the roots and transplant it, the plant should generaly be healthier and grow more robust in its first year, because of the lack of transplant shock, root damage etc...

Has anyone tried sowing palm seeds in ground to see if there is actualy a difference ( im also thinking in terms of the difference between potted roses, and bareroot roses ( or own root??))

I have both but that need to be harvested. I would have had a ton but someone decided to cut all but one Cape Hatteras stalk and one McCurtain stalk off my plants! My Cape Hatteras had 7 stalks loaded with seed originally and I had three McCurtains with 2-3 stalks each.

Oh no! People stole the seeds on the stock...the whole thing? :angry7: