Sand?

[Kansas]

I have heard many times that just adding about 45-50% builders sand to soil is terrific for our palms. However I have heard from one other Northern Grower that sand is NOT a good soil.
So which is it?

[PALMETTOMAN]

Good question Kansas..

Perhaps our palm experts in coastal BC can tell us?

Maybe it depends where you live..In coastal Carolina the ground is pretty well all sand and drains fast with the torrential rains....The palms all thrive...As well with sand, the ground doesn't retain nearly as much moisture and I'm guessing doesn't freeze up as much in winter like it would with regular old soil?

The potted palms that I've seen or bought have a good portion of sand in them...


Palmettoman z6-Ajax, On

[Kansas]

AHHHH, once you mentioned the coastal sand, It reminded me of something. Those Cycad seeds I wrote about just now in the Greenhouse header, I have some pure white Perdito Key, Pensacola sand from my work time there. I wonder how that would do????

[Alchris]

The advantage of sand 'naturally' along the south east coast is that the rains pick up nutrients from other sources as they drain over them and provide nutrients to the palms that way. If you are going to use sand, you are going to need to provide a source of nutrients.

Sand also retains moisture more than some other mediums because of its small size. When there is consistent size in the sand, as in builders sand, it packs quite solidly and holds moisture around each grain of sand.

Sand does have it's advantages if you watch out for it's disadvantages.

Allen

[Kansas]

So Alchris, maybe 2-1-1 w/ sand, potting soil w/ Osmocote, Perlite??? Would that be a good mixture?

[Tony O]

For what it's worth, my 2 cents. Sand is good mixed in for potted palms & plants. However, for planting in a clay soil outside, not good. Digging a hole in clay & filling with a well draining soil mix to plant in, is like filling up a bucket to plant in. When it fills with water, it has no where to go. Without good drainage, the roots will rot. I hope that helped to answer your question.



Tony O.

[Alchris]

There is a reason that I am a 'seedling'--- I know darned little about Palms. I finally decided to go ahead and try to grow palms, which I have loved and coveted for years, last fall. This forum has taught me almost everything that I know about Palms.

I really wouldn't want to give anyone advice about palm soil. My Washingtonias are doing well and my Trachys are doing so- so both in the same soilless plant starter. Neither are large enough to put outside.

I learned the hard way about sand when growing Cacti and other perennials that required well drained soil. I also learned, while laying paving stones, the differences in compacting commercial sand and natural sand. If you are trying to add drainage to a heavy clay soil don't use only sand. You will end up with soil cement.

The only suggestion that I have - consider the depth and width of the root system of the palm when it is fully grown when planning your soil. I am going to be planting a sabal Minor next to the south side of the house. Once I figure out how deep the roots will grow, I will start with a gravelly soil from the weeping tile up to the bottom of the root system to provide good drainage. Then moderate draining soil up to about the last foot or foot and a half to keep it's feet wet. The top portion will be well drained soil to keep the surface relatively dry. I plan on using continuous drip watering.

I also plan on planting a trachycarpus (fortunei or wagnereans ) beside it. I don't know anything about its soil or moisture wants yet but I have until spring to find out. There is room for another palm on the other side of the Trachy and I may go with a needle palm or another sabal minor.

I am looking forward to learning from you fellows what kind of soil I need for both the Trachy and the needle palm. My philosophy has always been to find out the plant's preferred natural environment and do my best to duplicate it.

Allen

[Cali-wanna-b]

Hi all

Maybe it's just my local area but, what we call builder sand is a course sandy aggregate with varying aggregate sizes. We commonly use this type of sand for dry laid brick pavers. Mason or play sand is the homogenous aggregate most think of when talking about sand. The structure of mason sand will hold alot of water, where as the contractor sand will not and IMO is ideal for adding drainage to your soil mix.

Cali

[Laaz]

In coastal Carolina the ground is pretty well all sand and drains fast with the torrential rains

This is not true. On the beach & islands it may be sand, but once you are away from the immediate beach the soil is heavy clay. Adding to that we are at sea level and the water table is just inches below the surface. When we have heavy rains the soil stay saturated for days at a time. I am about 5 miles from the beach.

The reason to add sand is to help drainage. Using sand also causes the nutrients to be flushed away much quicker, so there is a trade off.

[Alchris]

Cali; What you call builders sand is what we call fine crush gravel. I agree that we need varying size of particles to promote drainage. Consistent size tends to compact and hold water.

Allen

[Wes North Van]

I live in an area that is known for it's winter rains and I use a 50% compost and 50% sand mix for my palms. I have never lost a palm to root rot.
The soil dries quickly once the sun comes out. My native soil is sand and river rock. The drainage is excellent.
My two cents worth.

[Cali-wanna-b]

IMO, it depends on if the sand is a quartz or silica based sand. Silica is thin and flat in structure which causes it to hold moisture between the layers of silica. The quartz based sand has a angular shape to the particles and does not trap moisture like the silica.

[Kansas]

Well I used some Pensacola Beach, Florida sand on my Venezuela Royal. Hope it works.

[Zone5]

Has been my understanding,
The sand will fill in the air gaps producing a heavier potting mix. Also will cause the media to stay wet for a longer period by decreasing the porosity.

Some more info here. http://oregonstate.edu/dept/nursery-wee ... rties.html

[PALMETTOMAN]

I agree...the coastal area's of SC (beach and ocean areas), are basically sand or mixed soils with sands...

Depending on the area's and amount of rain..some drain well...and some don't...

As for using sand in potted palms...or in a bed...I can speak for myself in that I don't think it can hurt...as long as you use a good quality potting mix with it.


Palmettoman z6-Ajax, On