Unwrapping some palms

Beny · Post by **Beny** » Thu Apr 03, 2014 1:22 pm

Hi guy's,
Just start today to unwrap few palms at my home. All palms with the wrapping method survived the worst winter we ve had in 20 years

...The Trachy at the front of my house , the one i added some insulation in january, has better result. So, when using 30 feets DEL Christmas light cordon 54 watts plugged into T3 and 12 feets heatcable on the ground its enough even in very cold winter.
The trick is : need to protect the fronds to touching the cold tarp by adding 2-3 inches fiberglass insulation and a low wattage heat cable.

The damage that Trachy had this winter was due to the fronds touching the cold tarp, before i added the fiberglass insulation. If i was doing that in november, probably the palm was nt have any damage. I cut no fronds on it since last spring. It has more damage last spring with the old wrap method.
The Needle palm has a lot of burned leaves, that one was protected with C9 and has no fiberglass insulation. So, next time i will protect all palms with the following method.

So, the wrapping works like this :

DEL lights cordon on T3 (30 feets for 8-9 feets palm) located near the crown and 12 feets heatcable around the trunck on the ground with his own thermostat. Then wrap with vapor barier insulation, not to tigh. After that, wrap again with 2-3 inches fiberglass insulation then wrap with tarp. Make sure to make 2 holes in the wrapping, one at the side at the top of the trunck and one at the top of the wrapping. That will allow some air ventilation and prevent fungus problems.
Like that it should work even at -30c temp.

Ben

wheelman1976 · Post by **wheelman1976** » Thu Apr 03, 2014 4:32 pm

What specifically is a DEL lights?

905palms · Post by **905palms** » Thu Apr 03, 2014 6:08 pm

He means to say LED lights. (DEL is French term)

Bravo Ben, that's Badass! Great job!

Dan

Beny · Post by **Beny** » Fri Apr 04, 2014 4:48 am

Sorry Wheelman, Dan is right...that LED cable is only 54 watts for 30 feets long. The cable stay on more often, like that there s no peak of high heat. That help to prevent burn to the leaves. I was nt sure last fall if that will work, but after all, it work very well

Ben

wheelman1976 · Post by **wheelman1976** » Fri Apr 04, 2014 5:49 pm

I thought LED gave off next to no heat... are you thinking that that strand gives off enough heat to keep the fronds from burning?

chadec · Post by **chadec** » Sat Apr 05, 2014 5:09 am

Beny, very good job with the wrapping and finally getting it simplified.With the damage my palms recieved this yr from not being protected that could work for them next winter. Without the lights or heat source. In my zone I think lights would only be needed for my pindos or CIDP.

Thanks for sharing,

905palms · Post by **905palms** » Sat Apr 05, 2014 5:39 am

chadec wrote:Beny, very good job with the wrapping and finally getting it simplified.With the damage my palms recieved this yr from not being protected that could work for them next winter. Without the lights or heat source. In my zone I think lights would only be needed for my pindos or CIDP.

Thanks for sharing,

I'm intrigued by the CIDP, I may just try one up here! Chad do you have a picture we can see? Thx
Dan

Beny · Post by **Beny** » Sat Apr 05, 2014 2:35 pm

wheelman1976 wrote:I thought LED gave off next to no heat... are you thinking that that strand gives off enough heat to keep the fronds from burning?

I though the samething about the LED, but when the strand is on, it take 3-4 min to feel the heat. So, if our finger feel the heat, its because that heat is over 37c . It was a surprise for me too, to see it work for heating palms. Never the temp. Inside the wrapping went down Under the -2c even at -28c outside

.
The thing is to keep a small air space 1-2 inches not more, cause more space you have, more heat you need.
I think the heat of the LED is near 40-45c instead of more then 50-60c for heatcable. Heatcable does the job too but is more expensive to buy. And with the LED, you see if the heat system work

...

Ben

chadec · Post by **chadec** » Sat Apr 05, 2014 4:13 pm

905, I have a pic somewhere on a older thread of it dead. It bolted before winter ever got really bad which leads me to believe it was more a fungal disease. Either way this winter showed me the limits of my palms. Once we went into single digits I used Christmas lights inside my pindo covers but they still pulled. So I either need boxes or wrapping next time we drop below 12F.

bananieru · Post by **bananieru** » Sun Apr 06, 2014 11:00 am

How do you protect the roots with this method? can we have a picture? I thought that even a 2x2 is a little too small for the roots. I remember wxman was concerned few years ago that the palms are not doing that good when the root system goes outside the box.

Tavi

Beny · Post by **Beny** » Sun Apr 06, 2014 2:59 pm

I never had problem with the 2x2 box, even if the roots goes outside the larger of the box. Maybe because we have 1-2 feets of snow every year over it. Im doing the same protection with the wrapping as for the box. 9-12 feets heatcable Easyheat with their own thermostat around the base on the ground, spread 1 feet from the trunck. Then tarp over it, spreading at least 2 feets from the trunck and let the snow cover doing the rest of the job. In the past i checked few time during the winter and never the soil was frozen at the feet on the palm.
So, for me here it work well. 2-3 years ago i added 6-12 inches of mulch over the tarp at the base, and now even without that i have the same result

...

Ben

Beny · Post by **Beny** » Mon Apr 07, 2014 7:26 am

Here s a video after unwrapping some palms...box method is still better but wrapping could work easily in zone 5-6.

http://youtu.be/7gMnZjGXtYU

Ben

sashaeffer · Post by **sashaeffer** » Tue Apr 08, 2014 5:19 pm

After realizing the Mexican Fan Palm after 2 1/2 years in the ground was going to be a issue with building a ever taller cage for winter protection I was going to dig it up and move it 2 feet further away from where it's at. What a nightmare to dig up the root ball...so much so I gave up about 1/2 way to china and figured this will be first effort at Benys mummy wrap method. At least when I planted this palm I did it at an angle so it will grow away from the house.

Doesn't look the best now because of a sudden cold spell we had last fall to 9F and I left top off winter protection. It's coming back nicely though.

bananieru · Post by **bananieru** » Wed Apr 09, 2014 6:58 am

I always have to remind myself that in Los Angeles grow Mexican fan palms, not California fan palms, and that Washingtonia robusta is not as robust as Washingtonia filifera

Based on the thorns yes, it looks like yours is a Mexican fan palm.

How deep was actually 1/2 way to china?

Tavi

sashaeffer · Post by **sashaeffer** » Wed Apr 09, 2014 7:04 am

Lol. I had it dug out about a foot and a half and just started to get to thicker roots so I know the real battle was about to begin when I threw in the towel.

bananieru · Post by **bananieru** » Wed Apr 09, 2014 8:48 am

Mine is very close in size with yours, second winter in the ground. It's also planted very close to a fence. At least I know that's easier to get a new one than move the existing one.
Once it outgrows the 8' box, yes, it's a candidate for the wrapping method.

So Beny, two more years to fine tune the method

.

Beny · Post by **Beny** » Wed Apr 09, 2014 1:21 pm

Yeah, im working on that

...will unwrap more others this Saturday, but im pretty sure they will have damages

...will take off box soon too....

Ben

Beny · Post by **Beny** » Sun Apr 13, 2014 6:01 am

Just took of the wrapping protection, and guess what......it work well even the horrible winter we had here. Here s a video i toke yesterday. It is in french, but will post other in English for you soon.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qF3tR5ZF ... ture=share

Ben

sashaeffer · Post by **sashaeffer** » Sun Apr 13, 2014 6:08 am

Very cool, will be glad when re posted in English to understand narration.

Beny · Post by **Beny** » Sun Apr 13, 2014 6:28 am

I wrapped at least 11 ( 2 Butia and 9 Trachy Fortunei, 8-12 feets tall) with the same method: 2 Easyheat cable one 12 feets at the ground and one 16-24 feets around the trunck and foliage, they have their own thermostat. I located the thermostat one on the ground and the other at the crown level. Then i wrap with a small vapor/barier insulation 1/2 inch, then wrap again with arbotex and wrap finally with tarp. I make 2 small opening, one on the side at the top of the trunck and the other at the top of the protection.
Those palms, i don t added the 2-3 inches insulation like i did at my house and i saw i small difference. The one at my house have had less burn tips or fungus problem.
So, i think it s better to add 2-3 inches insulation between the vapor/barier and the tarp.
I m trying to understand why some palms ( without the 2-3 inches insulation) have had more fungus problem, even if i spayed them last fall. Maybe the cold enclosure touching the palm burn them, then the tissue die and come in decomposition

Ben

Beny · Post by **Beny** » Sun Apr 13, 2014 7:52 am

There you go...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5yn43Jw ... ture=share

Ben

sashaeffer · Post by **sashaeffer** » Sun Apr 13, 2014 8:13 am

Beny, that helps a lot seeing materials you used in French video. Now is that the palm you used the LED lights on as well? or was that heat tape?

LED rope lights would be MUCH easier to use that is for sure as long as they put off just enough heat to keep palms from freezing.

Beny · Post by **Beny** » Sun Apr 13, 2014 4:45 pm

In these videos, i used heat tape (Easyheat brand). But at my home, the LED rope did the job too. I think it turn on more often than the heat tape. With adding 2-3 inches insulation between the vapor-barier and tarp, the LED will do the job.
Ben

sashaeffer · Post by **sashaeffer** » Sun Apr 13, 2014 5:52 pm

Thanks Beny.

Beny · Post by **Beny** » Fri Apr 18, 2014 6:17 pm

Just unwrapped last palms near St-Jérôme, 30km north of Montréal, zone 4b....all Trachycarpus looks good, few burn tips thats it

...so, definitively, that method work well even in very cold climate. So, i will protect the futur palms with that method. No more box

....

Ben

905palms · Post by **905palms** » Sat Apr 19, 2014 6:10 am

Nice work Ben! Does that method work for only the Trachy's? or do you recommend boxes for less hardy species? Merci

Beny · Post by **Beny** » Sat Apr 19, 2014 7:28 am

I tried on a Butia and it had almost no damage, but mine at my home had a bit more burned tips. I ve had a probe Inside 2 wrapping and the lowest temp. i monitorized was -6c even at -28c outside.
So i think this technique can work for Windmill, Butia, Needle and Chamaerops. But for smaller palms i will still protect them with box maybe. With adding more insulation 2-3 inches of fiberglass insulation around the crown, we will be able to wrap Washingtonia i think

...
Ben

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Sat Apr 19, 2014 10:34 am

Beny,
Thanks so much for redoing the video in English...that was appreciated

Congrats, especially on that 12 foot Butia.
That's proof...all Trachies will come through totally unscathed if you were able to get a Butia through winter.

Very encouraging for those of us who simply can't build bigger and bigger boxes.

I still can't get over the fact that rope lights have worked.
I have a rope light that I use at Christmas on a handrail in the house...the thing never even feels warm.
So there's a thermocube running the rope light, presumably.

Thanks Beny...you give us hope that our palms can get tall and still survive.

Washies are definitely trickier than Trachy, someone even said they don't like their fronds tied up.

But mummy-wrapping is THE way to go.

Barb

sashaeffer · Post by **sashaeffer** » Sun Apr 20, 2014 4:57 am

I'm with Barb and the LED rope lights. But glad they work. Lower energy cost and much easier to find and use. So many of the C7 and C9 Christmas lights are crappy made in China ones that tend to fail easy. I'll still use the cages that I've made already until palms grow too tall, but I would suspect that my one Washy next to the house will be the first I'll try since I couldn't move it. I see local home improvement stores sell canvas both as unlined and lined and not expensive to wrap palm trunk in when time comes.

Beny · Post by **Beny** » Sun Apr 20, 2014 5:50 am

Thx Guy's for your comments

...the LED rope heat a bit when you put your hand on and wait few minutes, you ll feel the heat. But i think i will continue to use the Easyheat tape, all the palms i wrapped (except the one at my house with the LED) had that tape and i had good result with that.
Cost more than the LED but with the LED rope you need T3

.....So with the Easyheat, you don t need T3, it has is own thermostat...the finally cost will be almost the same...

Ben

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Sun Apr 20, 2014 9:41 am

Actually I like a combination of Scott's and Beny's ideas.

Because air circulation needs to be good, I do like the idea of a wire cage/fencing over which plastic/insulation can be draped.
Provides a rigid frame that won't collapse.

My Teepees for Washies provided about 6 inches of air space at the closest, 2 feet at the bottom all around the trunk.
And they've got some fungus, so Washies will be a challenge.

But Beny proved it works for Trachy and Butia (yippeeeeeee on that one, Beny!

)

Thanks Beny for the detailed explanations.

Barb

Beny · Post by **Beny** » Mon Apr 21, 2014 3:04 pm

There s some pics about 2 Trachy i unwrapped last week, they are in zone 4a, at the Laurentian foot hill, few degree s celcius colder than my house. Im very happy to see they are good

...they were protected with the wrapping..
Just post another video ou Youtube...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31nCrj3q ... ture=share

Ben

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Wed Apr 23, 2014 1:20 pm

Excellent protection job again, Beny.

Probably had some protection from really cold winds from the adjacent woodlands.

Some of my "worst" planting spots here are where there's nothing to stop cold winter winds from tearing through already-stressed plants.

Barb

sashaeffer · Post by **sashaeffer** » Wed Apr 23, 2014 2:25 pm

Aside from how great his palms came through the winter, that yard looks like party central for the neighorhood! Pool and hot tub on nice decking????

Summer pics too Beny.

Beny · Post by **Beny** » Wed Apr 23, 2014 6:38 pm

Yeah, and you should see the girl living there

....you ll wont believe your eye's

....will try to take picture of the palm and the girl beside

....

Ben

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Wed Apr 23, 2014 6:57 pm

Keep your mind on the palms, Beny.

Barb