Repotting Hell

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Thu Sep 22, 2011 2:34 pm

Oh man, the larger and older plants get, the more difficult it is...

This Canary Island Date Palm is already in a garbage can, not doing well.
Now I know why.
It had totally run out of soil.

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/southslope/6173490060/" title="DSC04979 by edible_plum, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6160/617 ... dc621a.jpg" width="375" height="500" alt="DSC04979"></a>

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/southslope/6172940897/" title="DSC04982 by edible_plum, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6176/617 ... 9b32e3.jpg" width="500" height="375" alt="DSC04982"></a>

Yup, had to lift it with the tractor again just to get it into...yes, another garbage can.

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/southslope/6172940879/" title="DSC04984 by edible_plum, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6180/617 ... 5c7e81.jpg" width="500" height="375" alt="DSC04984"></a>

No room for any new soil, so I had to use sand.
It's the only media that would trickle down into the pot when watering.

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/southslope/6172940869/" title="DSC04985 by edible_plum, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6180/617 ... dcc0c5.jpg" width="375" height="500" alt="DSC04985"></a>

Next pic: the Strelitzia presented some problems too...ended up breaking the fleshy roots off.

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/southslope/6173490074/" title="DSC04978 by edible_plum, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6157/617 ... 949a00.jpg" width="375" height="500" alt="DSC04978"></a>

Next pic: The Hyophorbe bottle palm was easier to get into its new and tall pot.

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/southslope/6173490082/" title="DSC04977 by edible_plum, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6160/617 ... d4870b.jpg" width="375" height="500" alt="DSC04977"></a>

Job's done...now to treat the soil in all the other palms to Dimethoate 480 to get rid of the scale.
By the way, where I had planted Garlic in the pot, there was NO scale at all.
Garlic seems the way to go (once plants are clean of scale).

Whew...done!

Barb

Cameron_z6a_N.S. · Post by **Cameron_z6a_N.S.** » Thu Sep 22, 2011 2:43 pm

Barb, I think that the solution for the CIDP is a BIGGER garbage can

DesertZone · Post by **DesertZone** » Thu Sep 22, 2011 7:03 pm

Cameron_z6a_N.S. wrote:Barb, I think that the solution for the CIDP is a BIGGER garbage can

Looking at the pic with the 2 cans I was thinking the same thing.

TerdalFarm · Post by **TerdalFarm** » Thu Sep 22, 2011 7:37 pm

Wow! Big project.

When I get cleared by the doc., I have some (lots) of that to do, too.
Hard work, but I kind of like seeing the roots.

igor.glukhovtsev · Post by **igor.glukhovtsev** » Thu Sep 22, 2011 10:17 pm

Erik, no more that 5 kilo even if you have the W's tractor!

hardyjim · Post by **hardyjim** » Fri Sep 23, 2011 8:24 am

Isn't there a horror movie about roots that take over???

Anyway,your pictures illustrate well how the story of
cold hardy palms begins!

My understanding is that this is exactly how the Bulgarian Trachys
started out(so to speak),they were planted -in ground- after getting to big to move!

Bulgarian Trachys

They actually left them out in pots the first winter-I think

http://www.polarpalm.net/en/start.html

canadianplant · Post by **canadianplant** » Fri Sep 23, 2011 8:35 am

So far, phoenix are brutal for filling pots in my experience. I repotted a pygmy date that had roots growing INTO the plastic pot.... ive never seen that before....

I had a CIDp in a 2 gallon pot for a year, and it took over almost as bad as yours had. I didnt go for the garbage can.... yet, but its in a 10 gallon dog treat bucket. Next step is the garbage can....

BTW, I have to thankk you barb and everyone else who recommended the sunshine mix. I didnt get the number 4, in the giant bundle, I got the general mix, in the smaller bundle. I ended up repotting over 20 things and everything that went into the mix went absolutely NUTS. My Musa (all of them) especially loved the soil, as well as my mandevilla

** sry barb, I seen it in the pic...

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Fri Sep 23, 2011 9:14 am

Yes, there must be larger garbage cans available...maybe a commercial refuse bin is next

they were planted -in ground- after getting to big to move!
Bulgarian Trachys
They actually left them out in pots the first winter-I think

Wow, that's quite the decision to make!
Maybe my next choice is a second palm hut...

oh man, what am I saying????

like seeing the roots

Good point, Erik. White fleshy roots are generally a sign of good health, but in this case I think the CIDP is going into decline.
Or maybe I should fertilize it every two days because there's no soil

And Igor's right...don't lift those plants yourself!

Jesse,
that Sunshine Soil Mix (#4 in my case) idea came from John in Kelowna (okanagandesertpalms).
Even last month during John's visit he's always checking my soil mixes, and chastizes me (nicely) when I've done it wrong.
Thanks John! So I bought more #4 and everything...yes everything...is going into that.
Yes, John, I'm repotting the two Brahea armata next

Off to poison some more scale...

But seriously folks, where I had planted a garlic bulb or two, there was NO SCALE at all this summer.
Even the ants (that "farm" the scale) stayed away.

Cheers to everybody on the first day of Fall.
Barb

igor.glukhovtsev · Post by **igor.glukhovtsev** » Fri Sep 23, 2011 9:55 am

lucky1 wrote: Off to poison some more scale...
But seriously folks, where I had planted a garlic bulb or two, there was NO SCALE at all this summer.
Even the ants (that "farm" the scale) stayed away. Barb

Barb, I learn something about a coffee ground, right? I have been having a lemon tree for many years covered with the tons of scales on it. Once I started applying the coffee ground (I was very skeptic on this one) on a top of the soil. Now, my lemon tree has no scales! It's a miracle!

canadianplant · Post by **canadianplant** » Fri Sep 23, 2011 10:01 am

igor.glukhovtsev wrote:
lucky1 wrote: Off to poison some more scale...
But seriously folks, where I had planted a garlic bulb or two, there was NO SCALE at all this summer.
Even the ants (that "farm" the scale) stayed away. Barb
Barb, I learn something about a coffee ground, right? I have been having a lemon tree for many years covered with the tons of scales on it. Once I started applying the coffee ground (I was very skeptic on this one) on a top of the soil. Now, my lemon tree has no scales! It's a miracle!

LOL galic has been grown as a deturant for pests for a long time. Its recommended to be grown underneath roses to keep aphids away. It worked well In my garden but never thought to try it indoors (ive placed it around the plant but never planted it in the same pot. You can use chives or any other alium. Garlic is just cheaper, and stinkier, and IMO better all around.

Ive never heard of using coffee grounds as pest control. I know it has minor acidifying affects in soil, and also helps iron intake, but ive never heard it being used as you mentioned. You ever find the reasoning behind it?

igor.glukhovtsev · Post by **igor.glukhovtsev** » Fri Sep 23, 2011 10:21 am

canadianplant wrote: Ive never heard of using coffee grounds as pest control. I know it has minor acidifying affects in soil, and also helps iron intake, but ive never heard it being used as you mentioned. You ever find the reasoning behind it?

Jesse, you should remember there was quite intensive discussion on this matter at the PN last winter. I learned it from our honorable Barb... Barb! Please, confirm!

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Fri Sep 23, 2011 11:31 am

We've discussed coffee grounds quite a bit, but could only find a couple refs on cycads.

I first heard about it through KNNN who sent one of Tom Broome's publications, he had a cycad nursery with many thousands of dollars of stock.
Cycad scale threatened to destroy his livelihood.

http://www.palmsnorth.com/forum/viewtop ... nds+cycads

http://www.cycad.org/documents/Broome-Coffee-2007.pdf

I've used coffee grounds on cycads and palms, with varying levels of success.
But I've still got scale, likely because ants are "re-farming the eggs" which they had buried.

One thing I don't like about coffee grounds is: applied one inch thick, with time it seems to form an almost impenetrable layer...waterproof in my view, and water runs down the sides of the pot instead of leaching into the entire soil.

The potential for acidifying the soil is OK, as my soil mix is mostly limestone with some peat.
I'm sure a small drop in pH (if it occurs), isn't a big deal.

Igor, I'm so glad it worked for your lemon tree.
I used a thick layer of coffee grounds on my 5-foot grapefruit tree.
Hasn't worked for me. I've still got ants crawling all over the leaves, which have a sticky substance on them.
So it's getting a double dose of Dimethoate 480, and then I'll plant some garlic bulbs in it too.

I'm NOT taking those scale buggers indoors this winter!

If I find the other coffee grounds/scale publication from Tom Broome, will post it separately for easy reference later on.

Barb

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Fri Sep 23, 2011 11:34 am

Oh for heaven's sake

I'm an idiot!
That second link, "cycad" immediately above, WAS Tom Broome's document.

(of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most)

Barb

igor.glukhovtsev · Post by **igor.glukhovtsev** » Fri Sep 23, 2011 12:34 pm

lucky1 wrote: Igor, I'm so glad it worked for your lemon tree.
I used a thick layer of coffee grounds on my 5-foot grapefruit tree.
Hasn't worked for me. Barb

I'm telling you it works. I'm so lazy for trying any other stuff. More details in a few winter month...

Jubaea · Post by **Jubaea** » Sat Sep 24, 2011 11:13 am

Although I don't have much experiance with root pruning on plams, I have used it on other plants if I want to keep them confined to a small pot. Many of these go dormant and or are succulent so they don't get stressed out. I would not do it more than once per year and when I do do it I just cut off the bottom few inches doing a clean cut. I use a large knife/machete then go back over with my hand pruners to clean up any bad cuts. I then can add new soil to the bottom. I will usually remove some of the top of the plant to compensate for the root trama. I would not do this in the fall in a cold climate. I know that large P. Canarienssis are reloacted so this might be a viable option, but I would only try this as a last resort or after trying it out on a smaller less valuable P. canariensis.

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Sat Sep 24, 2011 11:41 am

You make a good point Jubaea, thanks!
I wondered which palms could be successfully root-pruned.

Your comment that large CIDPs are often relocated/transplanted obviously indicates root pruning practices.

I was reluctant to damage that maze of white fleshy roots at the bottom.

Maybe next year

thanks again!
Barb

oppalm · Post by **oppalm** » Tue Dec 06, 2011 11:08 am

I had a Phoenix Roebellinii (Pygmy Date Palm) that had outgrown its container in June 2011. It actually needed to be repotted in 2010, but you know how that goes. Anyhow, I pulled it out of its container and the root structure looked like yours did Barb. I severely cut the root ball with a sharpened kitchen knife (don't tell my wife) I honestly cut the size of the rootball in half, sides and bottom, repotted in the same container, watered well, stuck it in the shade for several weeks , thinking the plant would sulk or go into shock or something, etc. It never missed a beat, no sulking, no complaining, no nothing. After a few weeks, I put it back in the sun and and the rest is history. I think the key here is to do stuff like this in summertime when the plants are actively growing roots to minimize shock. [/b]

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Tue Dec 06, 2011 8:17 pm

Yes summer would be the trick, Kent, versus September.
(your wife will know you used that knife!)

Your repot story reminded me this one had been severely pruned too a few years ago.
Well, sort of.

Impossible to run tractor control lever and hold new garbage can (pot) straight to receive roots...well here it is in pics:

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/southslope/1518631101/" title="DSC00451 by edible_plum, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2364/1518 ... e42a_z.jpg" width="640" height="480" alt="DSC00451"></a>

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/southslope/1519505864/" title="DSC00456 by edible_plum, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2085/1519 ... 6122_z.jpg" width="640" height="480" alt="DSC00456"></a>

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/southslope/1519509800/" title="DSC00457 by edible_plum, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2011/1519 ... 3e11_z.jpg" width="640" height="480" alt="DSC00457"></a>

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/southslope/1518662251/" title="DSC00459 by edible_plum, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2350/1518 ... 1b75_z.jpg" width="480" height="640" alt="DSC00459"></a>

Yup, the bottom half of rootball was so heavy it just broke off without having to use any knives from my kitchen

Barb

PS--my PDP could use a repot too.