Mid Winter T. Fortunei

Arctic Palm · Post by **Arctic Palm** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 12:07 pm

Hey all,

Have not been around for a while, in and out of canada. Some nice warm places and some not....lol. I got home yesterday and took a look at my trachy I have outside...The leaves are folding..any ideas??? Maybe the ground is not wet enough??
It is on a timer and a warm light comes on at 5pm to 9am when the sun is back on the greenhouse.

Paul Ont · Post by **Paul Ont** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 1:23 pm

Looks like drought stress to me, I'd water to be on the safe side...
Trachys (nainital especially) are known to fold up their leaves in prolonged cold weather though, what sore of temp is your heat source set to??

Arctic Palm · Post by **Arctic Palm** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 2:03 pm

It has been very cold here this winter...the temp in the greenhouse doesnt go below 32F. Perhaps on cloudy cold days it does...I did just water it. The soil was like dust so I assume its very very dry, I will water every couple days. Thanks

Okanagan desert-palms · Post by **Okanagan desert-palms** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 3:05 pm

Looks perfectly normal to me. Trachy fronds will open as the hours of light and temps increase. My palms outside have experienced -10c 14f with no problems at all. I would expect as much considering they are rated down to -18c 0f for Trachy and -25c -6f for needle palms for brief durations. I would expect my palms to take off this year. They seem to know they have to grow after a taste of some cold. Welcome back.

John

Arctic Palm · Post by **Arctic Palm** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 5:19 pm

Hey ODP,
I was just concerned about the leaves all folding up. Wondering if it was a sign of something bad or if it was natural. I have never seen the leaves fold up like that...like I said it has been a cold winter here. Not many hours of sunlight and probably no water for the roots as the ground has not had a real thaw. I poured some warm water over the base of the tree in hopes to give it a drink. It usually starts to warm up within 4 or so weeks from now, so we'll see.
Thanks

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 7:05 pm

Welcome back...(must've been nice to be OUT more than IN during a Canadian winter).

Palms in an enclosure against a building would have very dry soil this time of year.

Damn...there it is again, those accordion-folded new fronds!
It means it's deficient in SOMETHING but I can't remember WHAT.
I'm going to get out my book and go page by page till I find the bloody answer...drives me nuts.

Todd had a gorgeous palm with one new leaf "accordion-ing" too.
It's not a threat for the palm, just a sign.

Barb

PS--anybody else having trouble posting on PN tonight? Slow as a frozen snake.

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 7:54 am

Found the "accordion-pleated" fronds article at:

http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/load ... 12510.html

Excerpt: Manganese deficiency:

In the southwest deserts, weak or collapsed fronds, or fronds that are "accordion pleated" are an indication of a manganese deficiency. Using a complete palm food that contains manganese monthly during the warm months will help. Plants are not actively growing in the cool months, so wait until April before fertilizing. (Old fronds will not be improved however). The condition known as 'bud rot' has never been documented in Queen Palms by the U of A plant pathologist, so don't let anyone convince you otherwise.

Barb

Cowtown Palm Society · Post by **Cowtown Palm Society** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 2:57 pm

Hi All,

In addition to my blackening lower fronds (described under the "Help with my Trachy Fortunei" subject thread) I have also, coincidentally, started to notice this "accordion-pleated" phenomenon on my Trachy. Most of the leaves, on most of the fronds, are literally folded together (much more acutely than normal opening and closing that I know happens in relation to daylight conditions). Grrr!

Hopefully epsom salts in the spring will remedy this problem (as it seems, based on Barbs findings, that this is a magnesium deficiency). I'd like to apply them now, but there's no discernible growth taking place so I guess I probably shouldn't.

Man, this hardy plant is not a fan of the indoors!

Good luck Arctic Palm!

Hey John, are there nurseries in the Okanagan that carry hardy tropicals: palms, yuccas etc.? I'd make the trip from Calgary if there were.

Thanks!

Duncan

Okanagan desert-palms · Post by **Okanagan desert-palms** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 3:53 pm

Cowtown the nurseries that carry palms in Kelowna are Art knapp plantland and the Kelowna flower farm. The latter is definitely more than flowers. Google search this site on the top right of the home page here for Kelowna flower farm to see previous discussions on palms for sale here. You might want to check out this site as well.

www.millionplants.com
John

turtile · Post by **turtile** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 4:27 pm

I wouldn't use Epsom Salts on a potted plant. Use a complete fertilizer. If you only use magnesium sulfate, it can have a negative effect on other nutrients and soil make up.

Remember that Manganese and Magnesium are different nutrients. The folding that Arctic Palm posted is most likely from drought/cold. It can also appear from root rot. (fungus)

Here are some of the major nutrient deficiencies:
http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/EP273

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 4:35 pm

Hi Duncan,
Epsom salts is magnesium, an excellent tonic for all plants.

But that accordion-pleating on NEW leaves (only as they're emerging) was MANGANESE (sorry to yell),
(not magnesium) deficiency.

All our problems will likely go away when we and our palms will be outside (can't wait).

Ask some of the other forum members, I think they all keep Trachys in unheated garages, unused cold rooms, etc.

Barb

Cowtown Palm Society · Post by **Cowtown Palm Society** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 5:01 pm

Turtile,

Thanks for the input, appreciate it...hope I'm not dealing with root rot!

John,

I actually purchased a small Rostrata and a 3 gallon Needle (Rhap. Hystrix), in the fall, from Botanix (Broadway Gardens) in St. Catherines. Tony was very helpful in filling my order, I'd recommend them to anyone. My Needle has grown two new fronds, since October, in a south-facing window.

(As an aside-this is why I'm not sure how to deal with my ailing Trachy. People are advising me to treat it like it's in a winter dormancy period, in terms of watering etc..but...palms have no real dormancy period in frost-free climates (which I'm replicating) do they ? If I could fit my Trachy in the same south window, I think it would have created far more "summer-like" conditions than anything outside in Calgary. Anyhow, the west window was a bad (only) choice I think...warm and relatively dark, until recently. Perhaps my Needle will go relatively dormant in cool Calgary nights outside this spring???)

It is expensive to have these plants shipped from Ontario, however, and size is restricted to 3 gallon. I'd really like a good sized hardy-yucca, if there are any in Kelowna, John (rostrata, faxoninania, schotti, thompsonia etc.) I'd die for Brevifoila..have you seen any!? Thanks!

Duncan

Cowtown Palm Society · Post by **Cowtown Palm Society** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 5:18 pm

Barb,

Ooops, wrong element...okay thanks. In Calgary, in my un-heated garage, I bet we've had -20 to -25 (outside winter low was -33 this season-that better be the low...oh no I jinxed us!!!)...so I don't think my potted Trachy would care for much of that. I'm sure this is a great strategy in those 5-6 zones where -15 to -20 becomes -5 to -10 inside. Time to heat the garage..I'll tell my wife!

Thanks Barb!

Duncan

Arctic Palm · Post by **Arctic Palm** » Sun Feb 24, 2008 12:10 pm

I want to believe the folding fronds are a result of water, or lack of...It has not been watered since November, I thought the snow and wet in the ground would be enough but I think I was wrong...I have added water ever other day and I am waiting for a change.
I do not believe the cold was a issue because the temp in the greenhouse is in the 50 - 60s during the day and just above 32 at night..this is my first winter with a Trachy outside so its kind of a experiment plant.
Time will tell......

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Sun Feb 24, 2008 3:02 pm

By the way, congrats for your first winter of having it outside.

Did you take a pic of enclosure before you went away?
Sounds like you picked a pretty good spot for it.

Barb

Arctic Palm · Post by **Arctic Palm** » Sun Feb 24, 2008 7:42 pm

I do actually, I need to dig it out...
What does browning tips on the trachy mean, even the newest frond is browning at the tips..its inside and has not been subjected to any cold....Some places half way down the fan are browning,,,,?

PALMETTOMAN · Post by **PALMETTOMAN** » Mon Feb 25, 2008 8:31 am

Hey Arctic Palm..

I have several enclosed trachy palms...I have noticed some slight folding of the leaves however, after I lightly water the
palms they slowly open back up?

Mine are enclosed in glass/plexi palm houses and so far have shrugged off about -10C and are looking good. I let the heat kick in when we are heading toward nighttime lows of -7C to -10C. The heat keeps the palm at 2C-5C.

I would highly recommend a feeding of Carl Pool palm fertilizer this spring for your trachy.

At this point, I'd try and keep them as comfy as possible..were going to be hitting our lowest temps of the season this wk.

My garaged giant cordyline's and other potted trachy's and butias/needels have only seen low temps of -5C and and are looking ok..

Nice to hear your back!

Palmettoman Z6-Ajax, On

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Mid Winter T. Fortunei

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