Good for you, Aaron; it must be a real challenge sometimes to work with troubled kids.
Takes special dedication; doubt I could do that, even with sufficient training.

Barb

Thanks Barb, but I'm trained or anything like that. I work with them all the time because they are sent to me for community service. But I can't stop myself from wanting to help them out. I bet you would be awesome if you worked around them. 😉

Part of the problem is,this is a very simple statement-

"The kind of people who place a higher value on material items then they do on human life."

and yet it can be perverted to mean something else.

Ok...it's all good 😀

worked around them

Thanks Aaron.
They might get some of the "tough love" my palms receive 😆

Bet you're getting some snow now with this system...

Barb

Good for you, Aaron; it must be a real challenge sometimes to work with troubled kids.
Takes special dedication; doubt I could do that, even with sufficient training.

Barb

Thanks Barb, but I'm trained or anything like that. I work with them all the time because they are sent to me for community service. But I can't stop myself from wanting to help them out. I bet you would be awesome if you worked around them. 😉

You mean making then mow her gigantic lawn and build her palm boxes? 😀

Part of the problem is,this is a very simple statement-

"The kind of people who place a higher value on material items then they do on human life."

and yet it can be perverted to mean something else.

Ok...it's all good 😀

Certainly not picking on you here Aaron-just responding......

on so many of these forums,when these topics come up,you often
see people changing very simple statements around to express there feelings.

Like I am about to do

😉

I like Jacque Fresco's idea's of future planning and his plans for cities in the future.

A lot of people will argue his ideas don't allow people to be free to pursue there own dreams-
but with the planet already past it's limit of sustainable population the only other option will be
full control,including population control and with something like 1% of the population controlling
most of the wealth-who do you think will decide what's what in the future....well,they already do.

The main issue here is wrestling control back from the super wealthy few,that set policy for everyone.

Healthy,well informed people can make better decisions but we don't have that-what we do have
in one example is a health care industry that profits more by keeping people sick than getting them well.

There is already a cure for cancer-do you thing the trillion dollar business of the pharmaceutical companies will ever let
it see the light of day? No way-there is no money in it.

Part of the problem is,this is a very simple statement-

"The kind of people who place a higher value on material items then they do on human life."

and yet it can be perverted to mean something else.

Ok...it's all good 😀

Certainly not picking on you here Aaron-just responding......

on so many of these forums,when these topics come up,you often
see people changing very simple statements around to express there feelings.

Like I am about to do

😉

I like Jacque Fresco's idea's of future planning and his plans for cities in the future.

A lot of people will argue his ideas don't allow people to be free to pursue there own dreams-
but with the planet already past it's limit of sustainable population the only other option will be
full control,including population control and with something like 1% of the population controlling
most of the wealth-who do you think will decide what's what in the future....well,they already do.

The main issue here is wrestling control back from the super wealthy few,that set policy for everyone.

Healthy,well informed people can make better decisions but we don't have that-what we do have
in one example is a health care industry that profits more by keeping people sick than getting them well.

There is already a cure for cancer-do you thing the trillion dollar business of the pharmaceutical companies will ever let
it see the light of day? No way-there is no money in it.

I liked Frescos ideas, until I found out he was basically a fraud.... The concepts are pretty interesting though....

The one problem with him, is that he never really addressed the issue of food, or the allocation of any wealth. IT seems that with his model, it would be a communismish equal spread, but in reality, you wont have equal spread. It doesnt have to be money either. Some places are going to be more mineral rich then others, while others will only be able to grow/build so much and sustain so many people...

That leads to your comment about "the worlds population limit". We dont really know what that is in general. IF you meant "limit", as in the maximum amount of people, living in this way of life/society, then yes, we are definitely at/near/past the maximum amount of people. The real problem there is, oil. Petroleum products enabled our population to double twice in 100 years. Some stats say 9/10 humans are alive to day, strictly due to petroleum based farming techniques or some tool made from petroleum.

I have to say the big problem (stemming from the above paragraph) is the way we grow food. Sure, agriculture has enabled out population to grow. Where once we walked through tended forests to gather what we needed, we take up large plots of land to grow a few species in abundance. We need an area the size of South America to grow the worlds food. IF people tried to grow a portion of their food in local plots, or even in there yard can alleviate the waste of natural spaces, overuse of chemicals and petroleum based fertilizer, and if you use water reserving techniques, you can even lessen the use of water.

The real problem here, is that it takes a lot of people willing to do so, and in todays society of 40-50 hr work weeks and false ideas of abundace/prosparity, most people are unwilling to grow some tomatoes in a pot...

I guess what Im trying to say, is that the world can probably support the 7 billion people we have now, if we can get away from a wasteful, resource heavy society. It wouldnt be too easy, because most species populations are dictated by the resources that species uses in any given habitat. We would basically need a paradigm shift.

It is easy to call someone a fraud or communist-if that is how you are programmed to think.

When we run out of resources you may wish they were spread out a little more equally from the start.

I didnt mean communism in a negative light, Jim, only the similarities in the all equalness communism is supposed to induce. I also didnt mean anything negative about properly sharing resources, only that its impossible for everyone to get a perfect proportion.

But you did call one of the greatest thinkers of our time a fraud....
you may want to dig a little deeper into that and see who it is that would want to discredit him.

I like Jacque Fresco's idea's of future planning and his plans for cities in the future.

I think he has some awesome ideas. The problem I see with a city like his is it is based on just one persons idea, would be like living in a hotel/apertment complex. Would be awesome if you don't mind living in a way someone else thinks it best for you.
I think there is much better buildings that fit like a glove with nature not a white hubcap/salad bowl turned upsidedown. Plus I would want my own garden, change things as I see fit. I would not belive a place like that would not have nieghbors fighting if one cut down a tree for a better view. 😆
he is a very highly intellingent person with many good ideas, but people have thier own ideas and I would bet some would vernture out into the wilds looking for their feedom.
I like the collective thought process, all the hectict goings on like an ant pile but somehow it all works together. 😆

Bet you're getting some snow now with this system...

Barb

Yes, we got some of the white stuff, not pretty like your snow. So glad it melted off the raod way. 😀

Nope...just used to dealing with BC's too-left-leaning local governments (AAAARGH!) 😈
But that's mostly synonymous with Canada...

Here's a good article on fuel independence/fuel security:
http://fuelfix.com/blog/2012/12/13/energy-independence-on-the-outs/

Barb

didn't mean communism in a negative light,

Well, folks, I was born in a communist country...East Germany.
And you gotta have been born in that environment/be there/live there to see how dreams cannot come true.
But my Dad's dream came true with his family's escape.

Even if you scrimped and saved, you couldn't buy your child an orange.
There were no oranges in East Germany...ever.
No butter either, except one-quarter pound maybe every two weeks, and only in limited supply even that day.
You had to line up.
The first thing my Dad did when we made it out to West Germany was he bought an orange.
Mom said he was mad when I wouldn't eat it...I was just a little kid.

I cheered loudly when the Wall was torn down...from the comfort of my den in front of the TV (none of which I would've been able to "strive for" if my parents hadn't taken that risk and left. But Communist citizens worked hard; they just never got anywhere from their efforts.

My late Dad taught me lots in our new home in Canada.
To always keep an eye out for what government wants from you.
And to NEVER ask government for anything.

Anybody ever heard of Maurice Strong? This is a 4 year old article:
" Maurice Strong, a Canadian living in China, wanted us to feel very guilty for our standard of living in the West so he worked with the United Nations to organize the 1992 Earth Summit in Rio de Janeiro that laid the groundwork for the Kyoto Protocol of 1997.

Here are Strong’s words from before the summit:
“What if a small group of world leaders were to conclude that the principal risk to the Earth comes from the actions of rich countries? ...So, in order to save the planet, the group decides: Isn’t the only hope for the planet that the industrialized civilizations collapse? Isn’t it our responsibility to bring that about?”

Well, now that you know where I was born, you can probably imagine what I think of Mr. Maurice Strong...living in China, advocating THE COLLAPSE.

China can keep the S.O.B. for his treasonous statements.
In other words, he'd better not ever move into the house next door to me... :evil3:

I simply cannot fathom how that utter idiot named Maurice Strong is alive, and John Lennon is dead.

Barb

Was it George Carlin that had the routine about all the people that advocated peace and love?

Gandhi,Christ.Lennon etc,all murdered.

I totally agree with what Aaron said about possibly wanting to do your own thing.

And I would not have a problem with going back to "caveman days" whatever that means 😉

The reality is that you just won't be able too,every person on the planet now has traces of pesticides and
poisons in their body and soon enough all the ground water,etc will be to loaded with chemicals won't be possible
to live off the land and go get fresh water from a stream.

At the rate we are burning through resources on this planet,I think people will be forced to work together
and not so someone else can be rich while others starve-one thing that is cool about Fresco's ideas is that,
he saw a time when machines are so efficient that everybody can have what ever they need.

The problem with people amassing wealth or there being folks who are rich is that it always comes at someone elses
expense....when you think about the bail out of Wall streetor whatever you want to call it-think about if that money was spread
out among the people or better yet,if all of it was invested in alternative energy,clean energy,you could easily solve the U.S. dependency
on foreign energy-but where did it go? Right back into the pockets of the wealthy,meanwhile the price of everything goes no where but up.

Think about this,if all of us had everything we need-ALL OF US -what would you want of your neighbors?

I think when people poo poo this idea,it is because there is still the thought that they will somehow be lacking something
and this stems from over lapping or current situation over one where everybody is truly equal.

It would seem competition is a driving evolutionary force but what has happened is,the people who have the most wealth
set all the policy for everyone else and more and more our rights are being taken away by the supposedly rich and powerful.

At least in Fresco's future world people can strive for things that last,things that matter because you have the time to pursue them.
I think that everyone will realize at some point that striving for more and more material goods is not sustainable as long as some hoard all the wealth.

when you think about the bail out of Wall streetor whatever you want to call it-think about if that money was spread
out among the people...Right back into the pockets of the wealthy,meanwhile the price of everything goes no where but up.

Exactly.

Look at the way government is structured.
By the time "good" ideas get through all the layers, the wealthy always win because they either ARE government, or they have government's ear as corporate lobbyists. And then bureaucrats dilute stuff even further; doing as they're told by their bosses...the power-brokers.

Barb