BTW my beef with the green lobby is why should we paying extortionate prices that makes our Industry uncompetitive and put people out of work when we are in a deep recession?

I agree, even though I love the idea of green energy, I have yet to see a good way to produce it on a large scale. It is well done when is placed on privite property and in parking lots and roofs, I think it is wonderful...I just think the people that want it should pay for it.

PS I have seen more vast areas off land rapped in the name of solar and wind than any thing else I have personaly seen with my own eyes. 😐

the green lobby that were 30 years ago considered crackpots in my Country are now actually mainstream

Same here Andy.
Seems it was contagious...direct result of all those "G" meetings.

a revolution in Energy production

Turns out there's sufficient oil/natural gas under North American soil that we don't have to buy from you know where anymore.
The biggest issue is the damaging methods of extraction.
Fracking (apparently) causes earthquakes, and we've all seen photos of the devastation of "oilsands" development, with its HUGE water demand.

produce it on a large scale

Exactly Aaron.

I think THE biggest issue today is what's "silently" being agreed upon by industrialized vs. sea-level nations re "compensation" for sea level rise based on "our" actions. If sea-level nations are successful in gaining compensation as their islands dip below the waves, this will keep industrialized nations from EVER climbing out of the economic downturn. Wish the GW science were pure so there was something definitive to rely on.
Good story here on BBC (as usual).
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-20653018

I'll climb off my soapbox now... 😆
Barb

we live in a world where this is acceptable?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amqXocVjpJA

great news for smokers....you can water the grass and light your smokes!

This article has been floating around for a few weeks now. A few things caught my attention:

- It mentions nothing about the US being the biggest importer of oil, along with the most usage (more then half is used for its military)
- Lots of people dont want albertas "dirty oil", so why should people want the US?
- Fracking does cause earthquakes, there is a wealth of information about it out there now. A good amount of the oil is in the same general area as the Madrid fault line. Theres a "great" place to frak.

THis one is the big thing None of the articles talked about reserves in the arctic, and failed to mention Russia has almost half the oil and gas up there, not to mention Russia has been fairly quiet about its trading partners. Russia also has the worlds largest supply of industrial grade diamonds, something like 4 TRILLION carats worth. The article ignored the entire arctic issue. Russia has already lengthened the shipping season along the north shores.

Carbon is the main focus because of what it can do. IT isnt JUST carbon, its the domino effect that releasing carbon can do. Think of th PETM (pleisoscene Eoscene Thermal Maximum). Excess carbon built in the atmosphere, which raised the worlds temps and ocean temps. This wasnt a huge deal, as it was generally slow. It warmed up so much, it melted frozen methane on the ocean floor. Methane is something like 5 times more effective at warming then CO2, but the bulk is frozen in the oceans.

The real problem that CO2 poses, is that it can melt and release vast mounts of methane in the atmosphere, which like the PETM, saw the world loose its ice caps. This is the event that lead to the evolution of apes, hooved animals, and most modern animals. All modern plants are represented as well.

Unfortunately, we are putting CO2 in the atmosphere faster then in the PETM, also while biting the hand that feeds us (cutting down half the worlds forests). Mind you, we are doing nothing like what the siberian traps did at the end of the Permian, or what the indian traps did during the cretaceous. We also released record amounts of CO2 in 2012.

Its basically our society is based on industry. Industry of basically one product: Oil. Oil is tied to everything, even non petroleum based industry (say, natural gas, or our drinking water, and to our food due to petroleum based fertilizer.) The whole basis of carbon tax is to make the nation aware of how much CO2 they are releasing and the best way to do that, is to make them pay due to overuse. The real problem is again, co2 emissions are usually tied to economic growth, or the growth of a country. China and India release much more CO2 then the US and Canada, but because they are "developing", they arent bound to carbon tax, or treaties like Kyoto.

If also doesnt help, that there are countries with states like North Carolina, who use religion to make excuses for ignoring things like coastal erosion and sea level rise, making the situation much harder to get a clear picture of.

Ok sorry, went a bit off topic there..... The long and short of it, is that the US will never have a lot of oil, strickly because they use too much, and have to import over 40% of their oil (most from canada), and Canada has to import even more, because its refined in the US. On top of that, use of petroleum based products and oil in general is going up, not down. Countries like Russia have more easily obtained oil then the US could dream of, and Canada has opened oil trade with China. The infrastructure needs to be put in place, along with deforestation even before then can get to it. By then Russia will already have opened more arctic outposts and wells, and canada will have been sending China oil for a few years, while also expanding our oil exploration in Saskatchewan, Alberta, SE Manitoba and the arctic.

The real winner out of this, is going to be the country whos economy isnt based strictly on oil (ie renewable energy or self sustainability).

/end rant

As long as we have a growing population we are going to need fuels, we can not ignore that fact. Until we have better tech in batteries and a better green power source we will need fuels.
I guess we can grow corn on all wild spaces like the vast jungles in south america? As bad as I hate the idea, I would rather see it come from a hole in the ground. 😐

we live in a world where this is acceptable?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amqXocVjpJA

great news for smokers....you can water the grass and light your smokes!

I wonder if they could heat their house with that. 😆

As long as we have a growing population we are going to need fuels, we can not ignore that fact. Until we have better tech in batteries and a better green power source we will need fuels.
I guess we can grow corn on all wild spaces like the vast jungles in south america? As bad as I hate the idea, I would rather see it come from a hole in the ground. 😐

We dont have enough space to grow crops for fuel, as well as food.

And yes, of course we need fuel, because our entire society is based around industry/oil. We would need something as cheap and readily available. Unfortunately, we have nothing of the sort, besides using many of the modern renewable resources until somethin is made widely accessable.

Personally, I like the idea of using algae as a biofuel....

Personally, I like the idea of using algae as a biofuel....

I know one of people that are on the frontier of the algae use, it is an amazing plant. A little fermentation and it makes for a clean burning alcohol, and also has great prospects for oils. 😀

we live in a world where this is acceptable?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amqXocVjpJA

great news for smokers....you can water the grass and light your smokes!

I wonder if they could heat their house with that. 😆

LOL

Some of these people were told the water is safe to drink.....
but when you offer them a glass they will not drink it. 🙄

Personally, I like the idea of using algae as a biofuel....

I know one of people that are on the frontier of the algae use, it is an amazing plant. A little fermentation and it makes for a clean burning alcohol, and also has great prospects for oils. 😀

Its probably the closet thing we have "available" that is as versitile as oil (gas is pretty close too). Gas can be used to make polyethaline, while algea can be used as a fuel source, which is 99% renewable, only needing water and sunlight. The tech isnt quite there ATM, but its probably the best option we got.

As though anyone needs proof fracking scientists can be "bought":

http://stateimpact.npr.org/texas/2012/07/23/fracking-company-paid-texas-professor-behind-water-contamination-study/

And of course the BC government LOVED his "research". 😕

Barb

Even without fracking some wells are full of gas. When I was in western Idaho we had a well that exploded and blew a wall out of a pump house.

Even without fracking some wells are full of gas. When I was in western Idaho we had a well that exploded and blew a wall out of a pump house.

Now they can all be that way.

Just for fun what does everyone heat thier house with? 😐