Try sterilizing the soil first-
Bake it at 350 for a half hour-or-
Place in microwaveable container with perlite and water(gallon worth of soil 4 cups perlite 2 cups water)
microwave for ten minutes-keep an eye on it.
Then,use only boiled water to water the seeds with,this should keep lethal mold, etc from taking out seedlings.
This is a technique used for sterilizing soil for sprouting tree fern spores
You can watch a video on it here-use the same technique for your seedlings

http://www.fernfactory.com/frontend/proddetail.aspx?pn=supsgrwkit&co=10000397

Great advice and informative video.

Thanks

To add to Jim's method, you can first soak the seeds for 15 minutes in a 5-10% solution of bleach (sodium hypochlorate) to remove most (if not all) pathogens. You should then rinse the seeds 2x with water that has been boiled to remove all traces of the bleach. In tissue culture we use either bleach solutions or ethanol to sterilize the tissue before placing it in the culture vessels. With seed TC, bleach is most commonly used. I'll be using the bleach from now on, now that I know how well it works (I've had mold problems in the past)...

If you're using the baggie method you can also add a little NO DAMP to the water, this sould limit or exclude most pathogens as well (In addition to the bleach treatment)! Good luck! I've just ordered a few palms myself:

T. takil (what I hope is the real deal, the seller thinks it is...)
T. nainital (what most takils currently in cultivation actually are)
T. oreophilus
Phoenix theo (the hardiest of the genus)
Butia paraguayensis
Jubea chilensis

Ooooh, nice stuff you've both ordered.

One germinator on RPS recommended for big seeds like Bizzie, place them inside a tied mesh laundry bag and into the washing machine on Hot, adding some bleach, then perlite in baggies.

I'm expecting Wodyetia bifurcata seeds any day now; just can't find a Foxtail in nurseries anywhere.
Since they're the size of duck eggs, I'll use the washing machine, followed by soak (how long?) in a waterfilled casserole dish on an electric germinating mat. then into big baggies of perlite laid on the mat.

Thanks for the great No Damp! idea.

Microwaving sterilizing is hopefully not as STINKY as in a kitchen stove!

Barb

Paul
What size are the Takil plants?
If they are seedlings there is an easy and sure fire way to tell.
Takil seedlings first strap has 2 ridges on it,if it has this it is pure Takil!
If it has 4 ridges it is Takil hybrid,probably with Fortunei.
The only true Takils are from Takil palms with male and female parts ("flowers")or
if from the wild where only other Takil grows,much more rare.
Even the ones from the Rome gardens have mostly turned out to be Takilxfort hybrids.
True Takils are much more rare then people realize.The only other way to tell for sure is that mature Takil plants
have wrapped fiber like Latisectus or Martianus.
Most Trachys when young esp Naini Tal have wrapped fibers so,no help there!
Naini Tal is a great palm! Fast grower and very neat/compact crown.
Heres a pic of a confirmed Takil seedling,it's an upside down 2 ridger,so it actually looks like it has 3 ridges!
It is a pure Takil seedling-

First Trachycarpus Tesan seedling 4 ridges
<a href=" " target="_blank"><img src=" " border="0" alt="T.tesan"></a>

Now Takil 2 ridger-remember this leaf is upside down-it's my guess this one will be a real sidewinder/crawler!
<a href=" " target="_blank"><img src=" " border="0" alt="Takil"></a>

Jim,
I don't know about this trait, is there any literature to support it? My scientific training requires that I am skeptical of everything... Sorry, it's my personality flaw. Until I see some data to support that 'tesan' or 'takil' are hardier, I'll hold off. One more thing, I understand that takil was, until very recently, offered only by europalms. Apparently other suppliers now carry the real deal, whatever the real deal is. Problem: if Beccari called the palms he found Trachycarpus takil, and sent seed back to Italy where the plams are still growing in his garden, AND these palms are different from those that Spanner and Gibbons found (and no, I'm not talking about nainital), then why are we calling anything but Beccari's palms 'takil'? Shouldn't we be calling the palms in India something else if they're genetically different from the trees Beccari described?

Now, for no reason, I'll launch into a non-sensical paragrah about speciation and species concept!

There are a few things about the 'reniform' Trachycarpus (I was just discussing this with John from CO), one is whether these species have been isolated long enough (or at all) to be called new species (fortunei, takil, nanus, urkense, princeps, 'green' princeps... I DO NOT consider wagnerianus a species). My feelings are, that, if that if it is possible for them to mate in nature (at all) then they are varietas of a species; if, however, they truly are reproductively isolated then they should be species (i.e could an animal/inect carry pollen from one to the range of another, or would this have been possible in the not too distant past). The very recent upheaveal of the Mountains there have caused rapid and specific changes in each valley, such that, though the palms in one valley might differ slightly from the palms in another valley in a few minor characters, they are still very similar, having not been seperated for long (e.g. look at ITS sequence data from these palms, they differ little (i.e. 1 base pair) or not at all. For comparison the species I work with, though they have a shorter life span, can have several base pair differences in their ITS, even wihtin a species)... Anyway, John made the point that no matter what we call something, there are still traits that are associated with cold adpatation (his 'trunk' creep adaptation to mountain culture), which are more important horticulturally then what name we call them. I'm currently working on a phylogenetics project, so I think the names are important, but I am a firm believer in genetic differences being required to speciate (if we can't tell them apart by their DNA, how important can the taxonomic characters be?). Of course, taxonomists still run the show, so my position isn't well supported... Not that phenotypic traits aren't important, just that they need to be accompanied by measurable genetic differences. For example, in a recent talk by Dan Janzen, a renowned ecologist, he presented examples of butterflies from 1(8?) seperate species detected first by barcoding (cox1 DNA sequence) which had completely escaped taxonomic detection. On the other hand he presented an example of 4 butterly that were very different looking, and barcoding revealed that these we in fact all one species. Now, I realize that plants (woody plants) evolve more slowly, but there surely must be some genetic limit that must be reach before speciation occurs?

Does this make sense to anyone?

Trachycarpus drives people to fights and really gets under a lot of peoples skin.
I personally love this palm with all it's diversity.
If you look on the E.P.S.website (European Palm Society)there is a lot of info on Trachycarpus.
You would do well to direct your questions there and I think will get the most current thinking on this subject-sometimes Gibbons are Spanner will join the discussion.
They also have a site magazine called Chamaerops that discusses Takil(and many other palms) and it's ability do change sex from male to female as it ages!
Also if you search the threads there you will find quite a few threads on Takil,Princeps etc.
They have also been discussing the SFH trait,which may have to do with the position of the root in the embryo,anyway,lots of info-to much to go into here.
Hope to see you over there some day.
If you are in to Trachys ,I think you would really enjoy it!

If your talking about John in Colorado,of the famous Growing palms in Co.springs website(?)I seriously doubt they tested Takil,more likely Naini Tal-if that.
As far as cold hardiness goes,their various Fortunei,etc-survived -15F so,what about Tesan surviving -5F? Not really saying much.
Those guys did the best work I have ever seen on growing cold hardy palms!
I do have quite a few Tesan and they are different from Fortunei,much more compact-really beautiful little palms.
AS far as cold hardiness goes,(to me)the healthy palm wins!
I do think Latisectus,Martianus,Oreophlius to name a few are not looking as cold hardy as Fort,wag,Naini.etc-but they have not been tested under dry conditions-that I know of-
European winters are pretty wet so,not the best data from there?
Wagnerianus is a curious Trachy-where the hell did it come from?
There is a nursery in Korea that claims their Waggys can handle -5(F)
I bought a few form a guy in New Jersey,they are still small.
It will be interesting to see how some of these palms(Fortxwag-Nanusxwag,Tesan,Misan,etc) turn out as they grow.

Take care Paul
always interested in your thoughts on this subject 😉

P.S.
Check out the E.P.S. site!

Jim, I joined the E.P.S. site, but I don't really want to stir those guys up too much! I wonder if it's he same Nigel who told me he was resolutely opposed to declassifying any species? Probably is... I'll see if I can't track down the thesis and the figure I'm talking about before I post anything...

I see what you mean about the takil trait, it certainly seems like it's a real thing. I still have my hesitations about what the palms now being sent from India are, if they are genetically distinct form Beccari's original palms... Anyway, thanks for the reply!

Yea,
Good to see you over there Paul,the more heads the better!
The more Trachys the better! 😯 😆

Yea,
Good to see you over there Paul,the more heads the better!
The more Trachys the better! 😯 😆

apparenly tha dave guy is a nurseryman who is taking the piss a little. He's more a clumper than I am! Really, my only concern is that proper taxonomic procedures are followed, and I'm not convince that they are or have been...

Still, a knowledgable bunch and very interesting too.

I think the whole thing is actually pretty complex but there has been great progress lately!
Hopefully Gibbon's & Spanner's new book will clear some things up.
I am just happy at this point that I have a few (REAL!) Takil growing now,just gotta get through to spring when they will be big enough to make it.
Most people do not realize how truly rare a genuine Takil is!
I get a kick out of some of the pics people post with their 7g Takil plants, not likely-they will be lucky if it's Naini Tal,which is a truly great palm!

Hey Jim,
Is gibbons and Spanners older book still current enough to read? What's it called and when's the new one coming out? I love Trachys, more I can read about them the better.

Bill

I have not seen their books,although they are coming out with a new one that is supposed to shed some light on the Trachycarpus situation.
You can check out their Trachycarpus key here -

http://www.plantapalm.com/Vpe/palmkey/trachykey/trachykey.htm

Thanks Jim. Keep me posted if you here anything on there new one. By the way my 3 needles all grew 6 fronds, I counted this morning. 😀

Bill