I've been nothing but sceptical of these different 'forms' of fortunei... Hoefully some of the seedlings grown from the seed imported in the past few years will put an end to the -20C claim for 'tesan'! My call is genuine snake oil.

Jim google palmsnorth in the top right hand corner for Trachycarpus tesan to see previous discussions.

John

Hey, you know what this sounds like? Remember the Bulgarian form of Trachy? How those palms survived -20C or lower several times?
Too bad their offspring have been only as hardy as some of the others, like Taylor, Greenville, etc...

Anyone have a firsthand experience of a Trachy Tseng surviving -20C? Or colder? Cause I've had a Trachy 'Gerard Pury' through 2 winters in zone 5. It looks like crap but with a slight wrap of Frost cloth it lost no extra leaves last winter. The low was -26C.

I think what Garry is selling(whats in a name)are a pure form of these Trachycarpus palms in habitat,I remember reading(I think in an artical by Gibbons and spanner)that when these palms were originally brought over they were not seperated and it is more than logical to think that its possible that every Fortunei in cultivation has some Takil"blood"and this explains some of the variation in T.fortunei,I have 2 Fortunei that are fairly different,one has stiffer leaves and one has leaves that droop.
As far as cold hardiness the coldest temps I have heard of them(Trachys) surviving is -15F in Colorado so I don't go in for any particular hardiness claims,I think alot of that has to do with local conditions,age and health of the palm along with temps before and after the event,soil moisture ect.
I think Garrys plants(no matter what you call them)may offer a unique chance to try some Trachys that have not passed through Europe and come out mutts,(not that theres anything wrong with"mutts" 😉 ) I think if you take a look at his website(coldplant.com)you will see some very interesting Trachys,I especially like Tesan with its ultra furry trunk!
I have seen some pictures of Teasn seedlings with strap leaves that are much more stout than any other seedling Trachys, for what ever thats worth.

I wish you luck! But I remain skeptical as to the claims.
FYI the 'takil' blood you refer to is what we call 'nanitial' fortunei, a genetical identical palm to fortunei that has been imported and sold as T. takil until this past year (the seeds ALL came fromt he same palm at a boat club in Nanitial, India). Now, from what I understand natural populations of T. fortunei are uncertain, so, I think gary is likely selling some local Chinese variants of the species.
IMHO I would stick to some of the more uncertain 'species' which may posess tremendous hardiness (the true takil, princeps, nanus)... You can get seeds of all from James at europalms. I suggest you check him out. But, if you go ahead keep us up to date and let us know when you'll be comapring the tsen palms against a 'normal' fortunei (i.e. 5 of each in similar microclimates). I'll be curious to know if you do notice a difference.

So as to your commeent about Takil I am not talking about Naini Tal,I have some and I love this palm!
I am referring to the original seeds brought over(to Europe) in the 1850s by Major Madden who was the"first"to discover them(Takil),anyway he sent these seeds to the nursery men of Europe at that time,I believe the Takils growing in Rome botanical gardens are from this batch, none the less Fortunei was already there and these palms have hybridized which may explain the variations in Fort,this has happened in Europe and now elsewhere like with Washingtonia filifera and robusta,anyway thats one reason why there is so much variation in the trachys we see.
As far as Nanus goes I would not recommend it,I have one thats put out maybe two leaves in 2 years!maybe if you are 15 years old and would like to have a knee high palm in about 80 years that you can pass on to your kids 😆
Princeps,Martianus and Latisectus have not proved very cold hardy,I would not risk my Princeps as they are to hard to come by,as far as what Garrys selling I think these may be a more pure strain of Trackys pulled from there natural habitat and as to there hardiness,as stated earlier other trachys are on record as surviving much lower temps so nothing new there!
Heres a pic of my Princeps,Manipur,Nova and Naini Tal-
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<a href=" " target="_blank"><img src=" " border="0" alt="Nainital"></a>

Jim,
Further to this. The takils that grow in the Rome botanical garden are different then those that James is selling via europalms. For an explaination see the differences listed in the thesis written about the genus Trachycarpus. Whether the fact that the palms from Europe (the original seedlings grown from seed sent from India) and the 'takils' in habitat (as opposed to nanitial) group differently in bootsrap analyses using the AFLP markers means anything, I don't know. I do know that using the same criteria that were used to determine that nanitial and fortunei are the same species, that these should be SEPERATE species. And those that James is selling as true takil are something closely related to, but seperate from, the true takil as it is growing in Rome... No one has been able to give me a satisfactory answer on this, so I don't know what to say about it.
As for hybridization, sure, I suppose it is possible... But, I should point out, we have NO IDEA how hardy a real takil is, so it's difficult to say or point to 'takil' traits. The root of the problem is that we have a palm (fortunei) without a confirmed natural population and with a diversity of traits that encompass those used to determine other species... The genus is a mess, and even the most rapidly evolving DNA fragements can not be used to differentiate what are clearly distince species (nanus and fortunei).

I agree! I think the mystery of Takil and the whole Fortunei mess which you can include Takil in is what makes these palms so interesting they(some) keep avoiding classification they are magical palms in my opinion,very cool 8) I would love to see someone attach a weather sation to a Takil in the"wild" at high altitude and see what these palms really endure!I think no matter what the "secret"in habitat is sunny skies and somewhat dry weather following the little snow and 0F cold they do experience,anyway,I do love Trachycarpus such a great palm and the mystery just adds to the allure 😈

Jim,

I have a tesan from Mike. I think it's going on 3 years old now. I admittedly have a small sample group, but tesan seems to be along the lines of the bulgarian trachys. The leaves are very stiff compared to other trachys I have, including Naini Tal. Mine does not exhibit the "crawling" trunk like my Naini Tal either. I am planting it with a bulgaria and a few other eco types this spring, I'll let you know in a few years how they make out.... 😆

Craig

Technical stuff aside, I think the wisan are a great looking trachy and hope to get a few seeds myself to try.

What caught my eye about these(Tasan) trachys was the difference in their growth habit,they are super stout and tougher looking palms.
I don't really care about the hardiness claims for these palms as you really need a healthy plant to start with anyway,the Bulgarian Trachys are what twenty years old? and well established,so I think that played a big roll in their surviving.
These trachys form Garry look to be a pure form from their native land and some of the similar traits we see in other Trachys may be from mixing with these trachys,who knows?I just think they are some cool palms!B>T>W-my NainiTal does not creep either,the only palm I have with this trait in ernest is my Manipur-I know someone who is selling Tesan palms with a few fan leaves at a very reasonable price considering you can't get them anywhere else.

B.T.W. Paul,my first year T.wags have survived 5F(undamaged),so whats that -15c not to big of a stretch to -20,I really don't see why people take issue with Trachys surviving negative zero temps when there are so many other factors that go into it.
Anyway,I just wanted to mention that my Tesan seeds are already sprouting 3 weeks to the day after receiving them,you can't beat fresh seeds,I have seen trachys seeds take 3 months or more to sprout,I think after 6 weeks I lose interest and would probably just throw them in the yard!don't get me wrong,I would gather them like pearls if they sprouted but you know what they say,"a watched pot never boils" I think it does but after a while who cares 😯

Garry was right on with his estimate fo trachys sprouting time,one of my T.tesan is starting to push up a little "spear" leaf.
Garry said they take about a month to get a root going and another month for fist leaf to appear,at least one of them is right on time!

Excellent Jim.
I can't wait to see the roundleaf Wisan.
Very appealing look.

Barb

Hope this isn't a copyright infraction printing RPS' description of this palm here:

Trachycarpus geminisectus - Eight Peaks Fan Palm

The latest discovery in the Trachycarpus family, this species was
described as recently as 2003 from where mountainous northernmost
Vietnam borders on China. It forms a rather short trunk clothed in very
coarse, short, persistent leaf sheath fibers. Its few large, flat leaves
have about 40 segments, joined for their entire length in groups of 2 or
rarely 3, which gives the leaf a unique appearance. The leaves are very
thick and leathery and display a deep, glossy dark green above and a
stunning waxy white below. Though far less elegant than T. princeps,
with which it shares the white underside of the leaves, it will
undoubtedly make an interesting, robust and very cold hardy ornamental.
It seems to be most closely related to T. nanus.

Leaves with white undersides are very beautiful.
Barb