FINE CRUSH MY DREAMS!!!! jk LOL

This is exactly why im part of this ( and other) forums, To speak to people who have way more experience then me, and hopefulu to avoid mistakes. Never feel like your being the "bearer of bad news " to me. Id rather hear it, so I can reserch it, then kill the poor plant. From what im hearing, im assuming your not telling me not to get it, but jsut be aware, that the odds are, it wont be as majestic as Im thinking it would be.

So with all the info ive gotten ( thanks to you all, and a big thanks to Bill) im second guessing trying the Sabal. So, are my only good bets T Fortunei, and Needle palm??? Is there anything that you would reccomend me trying, that is a "maybe"?

I'm not saying not to try them Canadianplant I just don't want you to be disappointed when you have a zone 5 winter and they still look beat up. I wish you nothing but success don't take my advice the wrong way. ( I don't think you do) I only want you to have a palm that will grow well once warm weather shows up.

Trachy is most likely your best bet, they don't take a ton of heat to grow, there tough as nails, and they look like a palm tree too! Your going to need a heat source of some kind and with that being said needle and trachy will bring you the most happiness.

Bill

If you have a south wall that has a dark surface or you can put down some dark mulch,
rock etc,you may be able to create enough warmth to get a Sabal moving-good luck.

Don't forget to update us on what you try 😀

Well, for the pst week and a half weve been over 28C, and its been feeling like 35-43C. I think from june - september we have warm enough temps for it for sure. The Early spring ( say... february - may), is when it would start to take off after its winter in its habitat. So I would have to try to boost the temps around that time to probably even have a chance at some growth.

I like the dark wall idea. There is a garden bed I have where its about a foot and a half away from a red wall ( darkish), and theres a stone path between the wall, and the bed. Its one of the warmest spots I have ( the warmest is by a white wall that reflects heat and sunlight downwards, instead of holding the heat, which could also be useful). Id probably have to make a mini greenhouse over it, and throw in some waterbottles to try and hold some of that daytime heat, as well as some large rock. I know just having some decent sized rocks around the garden bed can raise the zone by 1, and even give me an extra few weeks on my growing season.

Id love to try and get some seed from that guy in bulgaria. He seems to have one of the hardiest stocks.......

Hmmmmm,seeds?

I still have some Bulgarian Trachy seeds left(about 50-60)and 180 in moist perlite-
some are just starting to to push their first spears out of the leaf sheath. 😀

excellent! FRom what ive read, their rated 5C colder then the usual Trachy.

Now, trachys seem to prefer cool climates ( ie, irland, the UK, netherlands, west coast north america, mabey even maritime canada), and our temps are generaly cool, but june/july/august and early sept ( sometimes even till mid october), the daytime temps are 25C plus, and heavy heavy humidity. The last 2 weeks have been 30C..... Im not to sure how it can take the heat.

As far as heat goes with Trachys.......

the better they are watered in the more they can handle-
you can't over water in hot weather!-
but they do need to be trenched!

100f and 102f on consecutive days here last week with direct south exposure and not a blemish.

The 'Bulgarian' Trachys aren't any hardier than 'normal'... If you raise a bunch you're 'sure' to get a couple that handle a bit more cold... But, honestly, -17C (-20C?) rather than -15C isn't that much of a difference when you hit -30C each winter... The fellow in Edmonton showed how Trachy is very tough under snow...

Canadianplant- I've tried Sabals on 4 different occasions and have been disappointed each time. The only one I've had success with (zone 5 and 6 winters) is in a palm house. Even with this, when the temperature in the house hit -15C (one night, heat failed) even though temps went above 0 each day, it was almost completely topkilled... The needled fared slightly better, and the same temps caused less damage this year.

Of the ones that I've tried, I've noticed no difference in hardiness. I planted 2 side by side (3 gallons, one was 'regular' one was 'Mccurtain' from Gary's in NC) and protected them with a leaf enclosure and a frost cloth wrap and some plastic to exclude moisture... Both were completely top killed (rot, I think) and only the 'regular' tried to come back growing 1/2 of a deformed leaf before winter. It died last year.

Don't let me discourage you, I think you should try, just be aware that the bigger the better, newly planted palms are less hardy than established ones, they are EXTREMELY prone to rot, and you'll have to play around with quite a few to find one that will work. If it were me I'd look up Amazing Gardens in OKC and get seeds of S. minor 'Arkansas', S. minor 'NE Texas', and S. minor 'McCurtain'. They should be ready to plant out in 3-4 years if you push them!

If you still want Miscanthus or Trachycarpus (BC form, as hardy as any of the other selections you've heard mentioned) let me know!

Thanks bill and paul........

Paul I remember the pics of the Sabals, same with the needle palm.
Thanks for the advice. It looks like I should try a cold hardier palm before I go to the sabal, or at least a more reliable one.

The trachycarpus isnt a bad idea. My phyllosachys Aureosulcata is doing excellent ( pushed up 10 new culms!!). Ive been reading about permaculture, and wouldnt mind trying a "guild" with my bamboo. These plants are generaly from the same areas ( central and east china). Grow some asian veggies as a ground cover, throw in some bleeding hearsts and Lilum, the trachy and the bamboo, im in china town 😈

The 'Bulgarian' Trachys aren't any hardier than 'normal'... If you raise a bunch you're 'sure' to get a couple that handle a bit more cold... But, honestly, -17C (-20C?) rather than -15C isn't that much of a difference when you hit -30C each winter... The fellow in Edmonton showed how Trachy is very tough under snow...

Is this based on your experience or your opinion?

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Both. I got a bunch of seed from Kiril about 8 years ago now... I never had any luck with them, and certainly they don't perform any better than any other fortunei I've tried. Certainly there is variability in the Trachycarpus fortunei 'complex' but I find it difficult to believe, from what I've seen, that there is anything more than about 5f worth of wiggle room in terms of cold tolerance...

Tim (MA) also grew hundreds of seedlings of this 'strain' in his lawn. I don't think the pictures are online anymore, but, if memory serves they came through the first winter looking ok (good snow cover) but the next year it hit 5f (-15C) with little snow and they were completely burnt and, I believe, none survived. Perhaps if Tim reads this he can elaborate, and/or correct any half-truths herein.

I have opinions on Trachycarpus, but, generally, these are justifiable. I think I said this before, but when you see a new 'wonder' palm every year or so (and without fail these prove little different from plants already in cultivation) you get jaded and skeptical when new information is presented (or old, dismissed, information is rehashed as something new)...

I get what your saying and I don't disagree on any one point.

I would say that any palm tested needs to be healthy and into a mature
leaf growing faze.

I think to have an accurate measure of palms hardiness you need to have several of each,healthy
in vigorous growth mode and in the same conditions.

I find Kiril's palms quite interesting because they are similar to other Fortunei that grow thick trunks
and stiff leaves and usually are quite creepy.

If you look at Johns biggest Trachy you see a very thick trunked palm with stiff leaves,
whether this trait ends up being one of increased hardiness or not,I prefer the look of these.

Tesan,Takil,Bulgarians,Naini Tal all exhibit this style of growth/trait.

I was looking at Garry's picture of Tesan yesterday and I have to say I really like the look of these,
I kind of thought this trait would not be one to carry over to the seeds/seedlings of Tesan but happily
it does!

I can't wait to see what Tesan and Misan look like when they get bigger.

The Tesan seedlings and my more mature Tesan are the stoutest growing Trachys
I have seen,I will come back with a recent pick.

I found some trachycarpus nanus seeds up fer sale...... i couldnt pass this up.... and their species gueranteed 😈

Well Paul,
I just so happen to have a few of those Bulgarians left grown from Tim. In A few years they will be planted out in the ground when I fell there ready and with the creeper trunk I bet a no heat cover will do the trick. One of them is just about ready now here it is. Not really a great picture since I just took it in the dark, the palm is bigger then it looks.

Bill