Canadianplant,
Just to let you know McCurtain is one of if not the slowest growing minors you could possibly find. I have a few and yeah the color is nice and all but good luck if they get any I mean ANY damage over the winter getting anything in return for there few degree's of cold tolerance. Take my advice for what ever you want, your best bet would be a Louisiana all day. A leaf cover won't do it in your location if you want something that actually looks like a palm, so you'll need heat so the difference between the two really makes no difference. You might as well go with the one that will actually produce some leaves over the summer.

I'm just trying to save you the aggravation.

Bill

No thats fine... this is why i make posts 😀

The only thing is every single bit of info Ive read about the Mcurtain, states that it is FASTER then the regular Minor. This probably isnt saying alot, seeing as Sabal Minor is SLOOOOOOOOOOOW. Do you mean it is slow, after seeing such cold temperature, or slow in general?.

Louisiana, is rated at zone 7 ( -17C ish), while Mccurtain is rated at -24C to - 26C ( zone 5). I have a GOOD chance of making the Mccurtain survive here, while the other sabals, Im not too sure about. Im thinking in terms of winter proection. I can easily cover theMccurtain during the coldest part of the winter, and uncover it when I uncover my bamboo ( when lows are no lower then -10C. I could just multch it and cover it in the sae way as my bamboo as well.

As for the Louisiana, I would more then likley need suplimental heat to do make it survive the winters here. But then again, i Guess it depends on my winter protection.

As for heat, during the early spring, I can make a "greenhouse" over it, to keep the day temps HIGH, and try to hold int he heat for the night.

Probably the person that rated McCurtain z5 has them for sale,because (IMHO)this is B.S.

Takil is probably hardier than Fortunei but if it grows slower it may not recover during spring/summer/fall
so........would it matter.

I have 6 S.Louisiana,last year they grew 4 new leaves,already 3 this year(so far)-from total defoliation.
McCurtain would probably hang around for a while in decline without protection and since we are protecting-
why not grow something that WILL grow.

I don't believe any palm is hardy to zone 5,unless you live in Colorado.

Well to be fair, you are zone 5, and as you say the Sabal are growing. They may have been defoliated, but id say that is hardy no?

Do you have experience growing Mccurtain?

Since you brought up the louisiana..... I concidered this palm, but as I said, it is labeled as zone 7 ( can we really trust the ratings??? probably not 100%), but some sources have listed it hardy to zone 5 or 6, in there experience, like you. I hadnt read that it is such a prolific grower for a Sabal. And they are easier to get as well. Whats the lowest temps they have been subjected to? Are they being protected in the winter?

My Sabals are growing in zone 5 protected to z7,so they have seen single digits at least,this is what
defoliated them.
I protect mine so you can't say they are zone 5 palms.
They are all at the point of putting out nice divided leaves that are lifting up on their stems/petioles
so not at the full range of there hardiness at this size.
I have McCurtain(5)seedlings with 3 straps,Brazoria (5)one has been in the ground 4-5 yrs the rest are
seedlings with 3 straps, 6 (as mentioned)S.louisiana,6 S.lisa.
Probably some others I am forgetting.
The best I would hope for in my zone is for them to get some size and protect from late Dec-March 1.

I figured you were protecting them, i didnt mean to assume anything...... Well I guess i could try both LOL...

Heres the real problem im having: Im not sure if I should get seeds, or live plants. I hear sabal seeds are easy, germinating failry quickly (1 - 6 months), even in room amperature. Ive had bad luck germinating palm seeds in the past, but they are alot easier to aquire.

Plants are harder to find for me ( so far) but take the 2 - 3 year wait for them to size up. Older specimin are hardier as well.

But going back to my original question.... do you know of a source in canada, or that ships to canada that has live plants?

I sure don't,sorry.

I think getting the biggest plants is best,(easier said then done I know)they will still have to adjust to the cold
no matter the size and sometimes lose whatever leaves they do have until more
resistant leaves come out.

I used to say forget it to growing much from seed but it is quite fun to watch them sprout and
grow up,it is also about the only choice with some hard to find species.
Might as well try it in the mean time,unless you can drive south.

One thing about Sabals,they really don't make good houseplants as growth is sloooow inside,
you really almost need a greenhouse or at least a warm house(in winter)with a lot of direct sunlight-

Good luck-where there's a will,there's a way!

Canadianplant,

I don't normally post, but I have to agree with hardyjim. I am in 5b Toronto and I heat everything in order for anything to survive long-term in our climate. If you are going to heat, sabal minors will provide the least visual presence and is very slow growing (especially after extensive defoliation). From my experience, needles do much better in my garden. Infact, Trachy F's are less hardy then needles but recovers much faster which is more rewarding as zone pushers. I now grow more trachys than needles/sabals.

Jim - That is some good advice. And mabey theyll adapt to the climate faster, havinggrown here inground for longer....... Ive managed to grow a few palsms from seed .. Phoenix Canariensis, Dypsis Lutesence (sp), Dypsis ALbofarinosa ( died from too much heat), and a few other tropicals, philidendrom, and baucarnea.... but ive tried like 15 different kinds of palm/banana seeds, with little success, which is why im tryig to stay away from seed... But you do make a very good point. And seeds are cheaper... if it fails.....

racer - Jim said Sabal "Louisiana" grows much faster, and would be a better choice... although Sabal are slow, and would be slower here probably. Needles are faster then Sabal, and are probably hardier, but as you say, revocer very slowly. Trachys are odd palms. It seems that some are quite hardier hen others , even though they are labeled just "fortunei" ( the one sin bulgaria for example.... or as we seen on here, the dude that made it survive edmonton with no protection!!)

Racer, thanks for posting! Please let us know more about your plants, perhaps with an "introduction" post.
canadianplant, the only palms I've started from seed are Sabal and for a beginner they are easy.
However, for landscape purposes, I say drive south for a vacation in (e.g.) Florida and bring some large palms back. (Is it true you don't need a phyto. if they are "houseplants"?)
--Erik

My Sabals typically grow more than my Needles but Bill seems to get more
growth out of his needles than I do,they are larger.

Palms planted directly in the ground are said to be more hardy than those planted later
but younger palms with strap leaves are WAY less hardy but much easier to protect-
I covered one of my T. Tesan sprouts with a pot and a mound of leaves and dirt-
it made it,no problem,no heat!
Seeds sprouted in the ground put down a serious tap root,this is vital since it is their lifeline
and it reaches unfrozen ground,usually.

Your going to need protection and some heat no matter what you do, so........

Growth, and speed of growth are dependant on certain factors as well. Spring temps, winter temps, soil life, animals/insect life, sunshine, humidity, night temps, the "bloodline" of the plant your growing, humidity, rain... the list goes on and on. I can have 2 needle palms, from the same source, and place them in 2 differnt yards, or even 2 different areas of the yard, and still have 2 different growth rates.

If your soil is "dead", there isnt much chance of any plant growing to potential, then if its growing in nice humusy, alive soil, rich in microrganisms. "Pests" can have a big effect on growth of any plant as well. If you dont have the right predator to pray ratio, they will effect your plants growth as well.

I still think Louisiana or Brazoria is your best bet. People in the south this year had much less damage on the Brazoria's then Louisiana's for some reason. They weren't hardened off though, 60's and 70's everyday to low to mid teens.

I really think you'll be disappointed with a minor unless you can get a 15+ gallon one to start, like I said in line 2 just my opinion.

Bill

Deep south that is, like Houston TX area for instance.