palms are in south position. if it is a CIDP it should have thicker leaves, but it looks like it is not. dacty ?? maybe, or a hybride?? it is very interesting, at least for me, cause seeing feather palm planted in the ground in my county is not frequent opportunities. specially if it can handle our winters, this is zone 7a, not 9a or 9b. this looks very promising. need to get this seeds!! yesterday i was in one garden center ,and there were left few cidps outdoor. all toasted. and this few from the topic are alive ,green and no sign of any damage. never protected!!

the same topic is posted in EPS,same text,pics....

what do you think? what is it? i will post what will happened in spring,summer.... but there is a great chance it survives!!

That's very exciting Damir!!!! 😀

Definitely not a Trachy, 3rd photo definitely looks like CIDP (mine has skinny leaves too.)
The people who forgot to bring their CIDP inside...did you see any with seeds?

-12C is phenomenal for any Phoenix survival after germination.

Please take some photos every month so we can watch them develop...are you going to ask for permission to dig one or two out?

You give us all hope!
Barb

Very cool, please keep us updated. 😀

barb, those bigger ones that stayed outdoor and toasted, are just bigger cidps in pots, no seeds on it. they are not mature to have seeds. i doubt that any cidp here grown in pots can have seeds. there must be and the male palm next to it. i am glad i found this few survivors. my trachys that are left without any protection this year, have some leaf burn now, and this palms that are less cold tolerant,actually for zone 9,and this is 7a to 6b, don't have any damage. and they were never protected in 3 years of life!!! if you remember last year what i did with my cidp, all those protection and struggle... and it barely survived, but it was 99 % defoliated. this few, the same last year were smaller than now, with no any protection and didnt get any damage, survived, green and healthy!!! there must be a catch. this is very promising phoenix palm. even if it could survive with some passive protection, i would be very happy to have few in the garden. imagine, cidp palm in my shity climate usda 7a. 😆
you will be informed what happens with it.
regards 😉

interesting...

You gotta think. They seem to be near a south facing concrete wall. That alone should give you a zone extra. I believe you get snow there too, so thats some more protection.

Ill have to agree with Barb, and at least call it a Phoenix. You wont know what one till it gets bigger. I know CIDP can take more frost then we give it credit for, but -10 is pushing it. You may have a situation like me, where you are close to a lake/mountains etc, that create a warmer area, then where the temps are taken (that is, unless you take your own temps...) The spot they are in might not even go below -8C, which IMO would be warm enough (with rebounding temps), to let CIDp make it over the winter.

That being said, there is one type of Phoenix, that is rated to zone 7: Phoenix theophratsii. ITs from crete, and is pretty rare in cultivation, so the odds that is what those plants are, are low.

One thing I DO know, is that Dactylifera, is not as cold hardy as CIDP, the same can be said for most phoenix. The only one I can say I have seen regularly stated below zone 8, is theophratsii. I also believe that there are a few types of dwarf phoenix up in the himalayas, and are fairly new to cultivation, so the hardiness again, is unsure. I think its safe to say that they are rare enough not to be one ones in question.

That's really neat. I'm not knowledgable about the Phoenix genus. However, I'll put my 2 cents in, and that's about all it's worth. I think I read these were 3 years old. They should have more leaves if they're that old, so it's prolly a safe bet they are defoliated every winter. I think what's going on, is that their growth point is still underground, saving them from death. Just my opinion but maybe totally wrong. Wish I am, in fact! I want a Phoenix for 7a!

Very interesting indeed!
Yes, keep us updated.
Kris, you could grow a CIDP if you built it a heated palm hut every winter. They would like our hot dry summers.
I bought a decent size CIDP around here last spring. Growing it in a pot, but I set it outside yesterday as it was so warm 😀

remember last year what i did with my cidp

Yes I remember the glass cage, a lot of work you did.

my shity climate usda 7a

I'd give my eye teeth for a 7a 😉

surely i must get this seeds. it looks promising in cold hardiness.

Since you haven't seen any seeds anywhere on the potted palms, I'd dig out the seedlings and bring them home to plant at your place.

their growth point is still underground, saving them from death.

Disagree with KrisK that seedling Phoenix have their terminal bud that low after 3 years as would, say, an Attalea (which Erik just "introduced" me to during his pics from Belize). But seeing the mulch so high (no sign of a trunk yet) would lead us all to that conclusion, KrisK.
Phoenix' oldest leaves should have been fried in those temps even if the bud were alive.

Which all makes me think it's not a Phoenix.
Darn.

I've just started a couple of P.dacty seeds...first growth is 1 inch long 😆 😆 , so it'll be a while until I can compare appearance. 😉
Barb

today i went there again. and i spoke to lady which palms belongs to. she said that her husband is wrong. the seeds of this palms are phoenix dactylifera, true date palm. she bought it in local shop, about 4 to 5 years ago, shop called konzum, like walmart in USA. specie is deglet nour. this dates are 99% present on market here in croatia, besides mozafati from iran -black sweet dates, my favorite ones. palms are very close to the house, sout side. never protected. she said that only 1st year they froze to the ground but in spring they recovered. the biggest looks great, she will keep it to herself and rest of it she will give it to me in spring 😉 !!! she has a theory that the palms adjust to new enviroment. if you know what is permaculture, you will know what i think. see it in you tube sepp holzer permaculture. very interesting. in austrian alps, at elevation of around 1500 metres, alpine climate, this mr. holzer grows kiwi,lemons,grape..... all kind of mediterranean fruits..... very interesting thing. must see. who knows, maybe this is the case in this case with this palms???

damir,

that's fascinating!!!!!

Wonderful that you'll be able to dig out the others in spring.

Yes I've seen those pics of med fruits that are grown in the Alps, and palms in Switzerland, etc. etc.
Really enjoyed viewing all those pics years ago.

Here are some P.dactylifera I started from edible dates.

<a href=" http://www.flickr.com/photos/southslope/2126525973/" title="DSC00720 by edible_plum, on Flickr"><img src=" " width="640" height="480" alt="DSC00720"></a>

Yes, OK, they must be a Phoenix then!!!! 😀 😀
Wonderful news, as Phoenix dacty and others grow in Zone 8, especially with some protection:

http://www.aqualityplant.com/AQPBlog.nsf/dx/01182010105659PMRPI6NJ.htm

And wouldn't it be WONDERFUL if it were a P.dacty :compress:
the blue on the seedling at left is wonderful.

Now I'm really getting excited, damir!!!!

Barb

today i went there again. and i spoke to lady which palms belongs to. she said that her husband is wrong. the seeds of this palms are phoenix dactylifera, true date palm. she bought it in local shop, about 4 to 5 years ago, shop called konzum, like walmart in USA. specie is deglet nour. this dates are 99% present on market here in croatia, besides mozafati from iran -black sweet dates, my favorite ones. palms are very close to the house, sout side. never protected. she said that only 1st year they froze to the ground but in spring they recovered. the biggest looks great, she will keep it to herself and rest of it she will give it to me in spring 😉 !!! she has a theory that the palms adjust to new enviroment. if you know what is permaculture, you will know what i think. see it in you tube sepp holzer permaculture. very interesting. in austrian alps, at elevation of around 1500 metres, alpine climate, this mr. holzer grows kiwi,lemons,grape..... all kind of mediterranean fruits..... very interesting thing. must see. who knows, maybe this is the case in this case with this palms???

Dactylifera eh....?

I jsut took a quick look at your climate date. it says your average low for jan is -4C. That would lead me to assume, that lows below say, -8C, are not the norm there? Obviously temps of -13C are possible, but how often does that happen? I think, it may have a chance there for the long end of "short term". Once it gets above that wall, Im not sure how long it will last.

As for permaculture. Im quite familiar with it. I should pick up Holzer's book actually.

The thing is, it may or may not be this situation. IF that family is versed in permaculture, I can see why the placed if where, and why they did. It does tend to teach you quite a bit on microclimtes, and possibly changing those micro climates into something more useful. That is one of the reasons I gained interest in it.

In northern Florida Phoenix Canariensis usually gets fried and Phoenix Sylvestris usually after but the Phoenix Dacty rarely gets damaged my friend there swears it is the toughest in the group
CoconutMike

This thread has gotten me interested in my Phoenix.
The first photo is of a potted CIDP I bought locally last Spring.

The second is my mystery Phoenix, to compare with Damir's.

A wife of an acquaintance of a friend heard I liked palms and so dug up these seedlings from her yard and stuck them in a pot with ordinary garden dirt--mostly clay. The story I got was that they were volunteers from a mature date palm. I knew that was impossible, and so just said, "Wow! That's incredible!" and set them aside, figuring they would die. But they have not, and have even grown some. I'm sure it is too latet to track down the story I discounted, but after what Damir found, now I wonder.

<table style="width:auto;"><tr><td><a href=" https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/bhh0ORxPaLd6FUXhdw0EUtMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=embedwebsit e"><img src=" " height="640" width="480" /></a></td></tr><tr><td style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:11px; text-align:right">From <a href=" https://picasaweb.google.com/terdalfarm/January2012?authuser=0&feat=embedwebsit e">January 2012</a></td></tr></table>

<table style="width:auto;"><tr><td><a href=" https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/CZ0zJdTeEcSevhUaV05svdMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=embedwebsit e"><img src=" " height="640" width="480" /></a></td></tr><tr><td style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:11px; text-align:right">From <a href=" https://picasaweb.google.com/terdalfarm/January2012?authuser=0&feat=embedwebsit e">January 2012</a></td></tr></table>

Hmmmm Eric. Some literature states that P Theophratsii is more then likely, the, or one of the parents of the now known "dactylifera". IF this is true, planting those dates from seed may cause them to revert in some ways. Maybe hardiness? Hybrid plants are hard to grow true from seed. Also, IIR, the commercial date palm is propagated from suckers, NOT seed due to the inability to say what the offspring will be.