Well needle palms natural habitat is up the eastern seaboard to about ohio is it not? If thats the case then no wonder why it has no problems there.

Sabal minor has natural strands in North Carolina as well ( in cape hatteras, an island off the coast). ISnt it plausable that there are, or were at one point sabal minor is virginia naturaly??

Tim,
thanks. I kind of enjoy the protection thing, but there are limits. I happen to like dwarf palmettos and needle palms and so don't mind getting more of them. However, I will try to run some electric heat to the S. "Louisiana" based on your post.
Our source, Amazing Gardens, offers no protection at all to his. However, he did lose some this past winter, along with most of his Trachy. So, I guess the lesson is that even if they make it through a normal winter, eventually a cold one will come along.
This is supposed to be a warmer than usual winter for me, but even in a warm winter we can have a brief very cold spell.
--Erik

Hi Erik,

My brother has tried lots of palms (mostly smaller in size 1 to 5 gallon to start with....even smaller 2yr old liners). The only palms which survived with no deaths and no protection were Sabal minor and Needle palm. Everything else has issues, needs protection or is dead. I know he killed Sabal ursana (spelling?) but this did OK for a couple years. I'm pretty sure I have him some Butias too which died 1st winter.

How long before he tried them without protection? Three of my four Trachys were previously planted at my parents' house in DC as I was then an apartment dweller but interested in Palms none the less. I left them unprotected the last couple of winters before I dug them up and brought them to Rancho Lord. They did ok. I am once again doing the three year protection plan with them because the transplanting was very rough on them.

Like your bro, I give the Needles and Sabals a good layer of mulch and leave it at that. Butia and Meds, however, will always be in shields up mode during the winter.

Too bad you missed the Monkey Puzzle.

Jesse

Sabals grow inland as far north as northeast Oklahoma/northern Arkansas
rumored to be in southern Missouri-I doubt that though.

To my knowledge Needle palms are not found naturally outside Alabama,
Florida, Georgia, Mississippi and South Carolina.

Jesse

Sabals grow inland as far north as northeast Oklahoma/northern Arkansas
rumored to be in southern Missouri-I doubt that though.

To my knowledge Needle palms are not found naturally outside Alabama,
Florida, Georgia, Mississippi and South Carolina.

Jim,
I wish! The natural range of Sabal minor only gets to the extreme SE corner of Oklahoma, where Alligator is also found. Similarly in southern Arkansas. Up here in NE Oklahoma, we have natural populations of Acer sacharum--a very different sort of plant.
--Erik
Source: State biosurvey fact sheet on Sabal minor:
http://www.biosurvey.ou.edu/shrub/sami8.htm

Then what about the " cape hatteras" seed, from north carolina?

At 35 oN, Cape Hatteras NC is the same latitude as me and a bit north of mccurtain county Oklahoma (33 oN).
And of course much milder with the Gulf Stream!

Needle palms are not found naturally outside....

Needle palms would be growing over most, if not all, of the U.S. if their "seed spreader" -- the giant sloth -- hadn't been hunted to extinction.
For anyone who hasn't read about it:
http://www.pacsoa.org.au/palms/Coldhardypalms/curious.html

Barb

wow..... that is cool.

WEll, now theres a more efficiant seed spreader... man and his insatiable appitite for gardening!

I'm pretty sure Gary Hollar told me last year they found some sabal minors in So. Virginia on some island. Like Erik said it's much more temperate then Oklahoma's natives thanks to the Ocean.

Bill

Jack,

my brother was having lots of problems with spear pull with trachys. The ones which are moisture protected sail through winter with no problem. Perhaps you started with larger specimens? Also, my brother says the city temps are far warmer than where he lives in Fairfax. Also, his palms not receive much sun in winter.....not planted in warm microclimates.

Jack,

my brother was having lots of problems with spear pull with trachys. The ones which are moisture protected sail through winter with no problem. Perhaps you started with larger specimens? Also, my brother says the city temps are far warmer than where he lives in Fairfax. Also, his palms not receive much sun in winter.....not planted in warm microclimates.

Mine were pretty small when planted and I protected them for at least 5 years (I have to star keeping a journal...). They did a couple of winters unprotected after having grown a bit.

All things being equal, it would be better to protect them forever. But I would eventually like my Trachys to go unprotected. I suppose they will always take a beating. No doubt part of the reason your bro's palms look so good is that he has protected them very well.

He is right about the city temps. I am closer to the city than he is, so maybe I benefit from the effect. When mine were first planted, they were in they city proper.

I'm pretty sure Gary Hollar told me last year they found some sabal minors in So. Virginia on some island. Like Erik said it's much more temperate then Oklahoma's natives thanks to the Ocean.

Bill

I would not doubt it. That small corner of Virginia is virtually subtropical or at least more like coastal North Carolina. It would not take much for some Sabal seeds to have ended up there. I think I have even seen some photos from a preserve on the mainland with Sabals growing in the woods.

Funny thing though. I spent time every summer and some Thanksgivings on the Outer Banks in North Carolina. Never saw a palm except for some pathetic Palmettos somebody had sloppily planted.

There's quiet a bit of palms out there now. I've seen them posted on another site, at least it seemed like a lot, I've never been there personally though. Always wanted to 😀

Bill

Jesse

Sabals grow inland as far north as northeast Oklahoma/northern Arkansas
rumored to be in southern Missouri-I doubt that though.

To my knowledge Needle palms are not found naturally outside Alabama,
Florida, Georgia, Mississippi and South Carolina.

Jim,
I wish! The natural range of Sabal minor only gets to the extreme SE corner of Oklahoma, where Alligator is also found. Similarly in southern Arkansas. Up here in NE Oklahoma, we have natural populations of Acer sacharum--a very different sort of plant.
--Erik
Source: State biosurvey fact sheet on Sabal minor:
http://www.biosurvey.ou.edu/shrub/sami8.htm

Oops!

meant to say southeast Oklahoma-

http://www.amazinggardens.com/oklahoma.html

Not sure where I read the accounts of S.minor being found in northern Arkansas
and southern Missouri,it does seem unlikely(as hell)because their habitat shots
are mostly lowland areas(dry to swampy)which does not fit the description
of northern Ark or southern Mo!