Yes, those are Larg. Var Tuscaro, they struggle in the winter, but its probably becuase i put them on a burm which recieves no protection from wind, and is a direct path of cold downflow from the hill above my yard. I wrap some burlap around them when the cold is prolonged just to protect the wood. There are many varieties of crepe myrtles that can take more, the smaller shrub forms like razzle is hardy to 4 and it makes a great border plant!
That is yucca aloifolia V. Marginata, its the tricolor of the variegated, but it only seems to be coloful during the fall and spring. Hardy to at least zone 5b i would think, yuccas are easy if you keep the crown dry and the roots. I like y. Aloifolia, becuase it can take much more humidy and rain. Something i have tried which works wonderfully with yuccas is to take a cheap nursery pot and cut it to fit the trunt on the bottom, i leave about 3 inches total exposed, so an inch and half to two inches from each side of the trunk. Then place it around the base of the trunk so it covers the rootball leaving ir open to grow downward into the planting hole, which i dig an extra 6 inches deep then fill with a mixture of orchid bark, beach sand, a little bit of gypsum to allow this mixture to penetrate outside the area dug for the roots. This prevents the hard missouri clay from just forming a water retentive mold around the roots. As with all the non branching plants, protecting the crown is important. I Just tie up the upper most growth and wrap some plastic around it to direct the down the trunk instead of threw it. Normally i would not recommend doing this, but with the pot around the roots very little water gets in to them reducing risk of freezing. I did spray no wilt on them this year, similar to freeze pruf. I do this probaby three times in october to build a thick layer so i do not have to reapply during the winter. Those yuccas have been in the ground for 4 years, i planted 3 and 1 did get crown rot its first winter so i relocated it to a dryer area. They are some of my favorites becuase of growth speed, hardiness and color.
The butia in the picture is my smaller one, its been in that spot for 5 years now, its dever defoliated completly. That was from two winters ago. I need to add my newer photos to this new computer, they are on a seperate hard drive. It did have a wind barrier around it, i pulled it off to take the picture, you can see the stakes in the ground around it.
My most important factor in protection for the majority of my sub tropicals is the additive ive been experimenting with with my research, so its like a miracle grow, disolves and is fed twice a month spring through fall. I want to reveal it very badly, but it still needs work, and becuase this research is importnat for admission to graduate school i can not talk about it in detail :(.
My indoor palms are 2-adonidias, spindle, and a 25 foot queen palm variety which now goes to a greenhouse for winter storage since i cannot fit it in the house, or even through the door.
In the ground i have many needles, a few varieties of sabal minors, including V. Louisianna, Trachys-fortuni, wag, and fort V. Bulgaria....extremely hardy! The butias..odorata..fatter trunk with silvery leaves is most cold tolerant through my experience. Sabal palmetto, birmingham, mexicana, phoenix robellini, Jubea chilensis, small washintonia Filifera's and this spring will be adding some citrus and 2-15 foot washintonias, and 2-8 foot sabal palmettos, these are the are going to be used to finalize my data from the spring 2010 to 2011 so i can submit my work... been a long 9 years!
The only palms i planted this year are; a 30 gallon needle palm and 15 gallon trachy, i got these from Morning star nurseries for $40.00! it was a clearance in the parking lot of a walmart. What a steel.. 30 gallon needle palm would normally be over 250.00 and even that would be a great price! The butia which is problematic isnt new, but i transplanted it, so it basically is like new. I have had that one since 2002? It was a monster! until i transplanted it.
I am very glad i stumbled across this forum, its nice to see so many enthusiast with so much passion and insight into what i believe is a growing hobby that will eventually be as common other gardening practices. If were not places like this where people can give and take information strategies would not be able to reach a perfection which will decide the fate of growing palms in cold climates. I thank you all so much.
Becuase i have so many photos, i will probably just upload all them to photo bucket and provide the link. Tonight or tomorrow. Anyone have any experience with Ponicuros or cittranges?

i can not talk about it in detail

we can wait! 🙂 good luck!

What a collection you have! Looking forward to seeing the link to your album(s).

I continue to be amazed at the low prices of valuable plants in the U.S. (even at regular prices).
Generally a third to maybe a half of what we pay here...that's IF we can find them (and it's a big IF).
Most keen palm folks north of the border will drive 100 miles just to look at another nursery's stock, when local nurseries disappoint.
Yes, we have WalMart here too but they seldom have anything decent in the way of palms.
Certainly no cycads.

We're looking forward to learning from you, too.
Barb

Here is a picture of my Y.aloifolia when it was smaller in warm weather(green and white)and
after cold stress.Very hardy little bugger-

I wonder if you remember seeing a patch of Y.aloifolia in La due(I think)at a gas station there?
I seem to remember seeing some there years ago.Wonder if they are still there?

<a href=" " target="_blank"><img src=" " border="0" alt="Var.trunking yucca"></a>
<a href=" " target="_blank"><img src=" " border="0" alt="Var-Aloifolia"></a>

i am in the ladue area and there is a gas station with a very mature clump of those yucca colorgaurd ones, i don't know which ones they are, but they aren't trunking. Perhaps they are though and i just cannot tell becuase sometimes the cold makes the trunks lay down and run across the ground...i hope mine don't do that, i am very excited for when they get bigger. They seem to double in size in every, unlike my other yuccas. There are a lot of yucca rostratas and thomsponias around slu's campus, im thinking of giving the breverfolia a try, i know they are not as hardy, but if the roots and trunks stay dry i think they would be fine. It is easier to keep tropical/subtropical yuccas in my opinion. They can take cold, just not moisture, and the dryness from the winds is what kills a lot of palms when its cold, but yuccas just keep on going, and if they do die, the roots should survive no problem through zone 5 for most. trying to get my photos into an album on photobucket is not working very well!

This would have been 20+ years ago,possibly.
Who knows new owners,cold-they could be gone.
I seem to remember Y.aloifolia at a gas station,thought it was Clayton and Ballas/La due?
Not even sure if any of these intersect- LOL-kinda.
Anyhow are the ones you are talking about like this?
I am not sure which these are.I think Bright edge,maybe colorguard.

<a href=" " target="_blank"><img src=" " border="0" alt="Bright edge Yucca"></a>

That looks more like it. I'll have to keep my eyes open next time i'm in the area. Yes, clayton and ladue do intersect, good memory! I made some progress with photobucket, apparently i was having trouble becuase i already had a photobucket account so when i could upload it would only take my new photos. Nice suprise becuase i lost a lot of photos when my old computer crashed, finally forgetfulness paid off! here is the link, i am also providing a link from one of our news programs on a family overwintering there california fan palms. I found it interesting becuase they make it look soo easy in the video clip..if only. http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/columnists.nsf/susanweich/story/64B6E60947912C9686257686008050E0?OpenDocument%0AI%20will%20take%20new%20photos%20of%20the%20plants%20today%20since%20the%20sun%20is%20finally%20out!%20I%20did%20build%20an%20inclosure%20yesterday%20for%20my%20butia%20which%20is%20still%20growing%20despite%20the%20cold,%20i%20thought%20ide%20just%20bite%20the%20bullet%20and%20protect%20it%20since%20my%20other%20may%20not%20recover .">

http://s588.photobucket.com/albums/ss330/Jch512/Backyard%20Plants/

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/columnists.nsf/susanweich/story/64B6E60947912C9686257686008050E0?OpenDocument
I will take new photos of the plants today since the sun is finally out! I did build an inclosure yesterday for my butia which is still growing despite the cold, i thought ide just bite the bullet and protect it since my other may not recover.

That video is very cool,nice to see some people going for it!
It was also funny to read some of the obviously jealous peoples comments-don't you have any stories for regular people?

Or whatever they said,or yea they most have a lot of money.

I also thought it was kinda funny they took the time to wrap saran wrap(?) around that,don't they know that comes in big sheets?
They could cut an hour off their time!

I'm really curious where the space heater goes,man that is a small area.

I guess I'm just jealous of those rich people with their big palms! 😉

I am curious about their palms going into decline,I wonder what St.Louis's GDD is? They most be awfully close to being not
warm enough for full recovery.
There was a guy Iowapalms that had some similar sized Washys in Dubuque Iowa,he did a hurricane cut on his too.
They had really pushed out a decent crown by Memorial day but by August of the NEXT summer they looked
less far along then they had the previous spring.Appeared to be in decline.

Anyway,nice to see people going for it and it working for them!

Thanks for posting the link to your album.
Great pictures of great plants.
I can see why that palm is stored in a GH over winter...
Beautiful yard, love the blue pots!
...and is that a Selloum under the tree adjacent to the house?

Great video. A 3 sided enclosure! what a good idea.
It makes sense a sloping wall would "shed" wind more readily than a flat surface.

How do they find room in there for the heater!

What they're using is called PALLET WRAP (saran wrap only stronger, heavier).
Manufacturers who ship boxed products on pallets always use this stuff to keep stacked boxes from sliding, wrap the entire pallet with it.

Agree that some of the posted comments were sour grapes... 😐

Thanks again!

I haven't watched the video yet but the backyard album is great. I'll borrow some ideas for the area around my pool.
My wife wants a big queen palm in a pot. I just don't want one that big as I know I'll be the one moving it 😆
--Erik

St. Louis is right on the border of USDA zones 5 and 6, 5b/6a, the city and about a ten mile radius around it is in the new zone map as 6a. I have never fully understood how they come up with the zones, but it seems to be fairly reliable. Although being in zone 5 would a winter minimum average of -20F, i dont know where that average comes from, but obviously zones dont matter much people like us anyway, we'll grow what we want to regardless. I think that area is a bit small for the space heater myself, kind of a fire hazard, and i wouldnt want that hot air blowing directly on my plant, i cooked a parajubea palm by using a heater in a small area. But this is the beauty of washintonias, the like arid climates, and in the sonoran desert it regualrly dips into the 30 and 40's and colder. So the main is keeping it dry but not suffocating the roots, maybe that's why he builds it so small? gives the roots some access to to water perhaps? I also would not be able to hurricane cut it, i know washintonias grow fast but still, i think spraying the foliage to retain moisture and wrapping them tight would do the trick, and make for a taller enclosure. Yes, i think the traingle is a great idea! i went through hell yesterday trying to anchor the new enclosure i threw together, the wind kept sweeping the thing right off the tree!

The wrap actually works very well. I like it becuase it goes on so quickly, no nailing or stapling, and becuase it adheres to itself it is quick to repair when it rips. Which is why its a little ridiculous that they pay them to come back out and fix the holes in it... its basically thick plastic wrap! they sell it at lowes near the boxes and moving supplies, and it comes in nifty for bachelor parties when want to wrap your friends car up. I have done work the man in the video, he also the owner of the company who i got the queen palm from, and where i store it.. that monster was dirt cheap! Problem is, it keeps growing, and eventually ill have to find a way to set the poor thing free, or if i get to move south find a way to take it with me.

Lucky1,
Those are acanthus mollis v. summer beauty, i love them 🙂 Mostly becuase the look so much like the phillodens, my spelling is awfull on the scientific names. They go down to zone 5 if you put a lot of mulch on them, and there another variety Acanthus spinosa is hardier, they do well in temperate climates, and they struggle here where it gets hot during the summer. Plantdelights nursery has multiple cultivars. Have you used plant delights before? They are a fantastic mail order source for people who are looking for the new and unusual plants.

HardyJim
what is GDD? is like the usda zones?

Your acanthus looked so similar to my selloum, which requires almost total shade:

Plant Delights nursery? 😆 😆 😆
Funny you should mention it. They are indeed a fabulous nursery and I continue to enjoy Tony's newsletters.
I was looking for yucca rostrata last year.

Plant Delights had them but by the time I found out where they were located, and that I needed a phytosanitary certificate....
To make a long story short, I bought 6 gorgeous--but little--"Sapphire Skies yucca rostrata from them (about $14.00 each U.S.).
By the time I was done with US exchange/phyto/shipping/import permit/etc. etc. those 6 little plants cost me approx. $360.00CDN. 😆 😆 😆
60 bucks each...needless to say I take very good care of those yuccas.

In case Jim's asleep....GDD = growing degree days, I think.

Barb

A few points to clear up here. My Master's research was in molecular phylogenetics, and taxonomy, obviously, played a major role in that work. I'm not a taxonomist by training, but it grates me to see horticultural varieties referred to as something like (not to pick on you) Yucca alofolia v. marginata... Which would mean that marginata is an offically described, probably naturally occuring, varietas of Yucca alofolia. It is almost certainly not. The botanically correct name for this plant would be Yucca alofolia 'MARGINATA', which means that it is a cultivated variety of the species Yucca alofolia. If I were to be really correct I would also italicize the species name, but this is a message board... Just pointing that out. I also gave Garry heck for referring to T. forunei 'Tesan' seeds as though they would breed true to the cultivar... Which is simply not true in an obligate outcrosser.

Second, the USDA zones are based on average extreme minimum low temperature. So St. Louis, as a zone 6a, would have an annual average extreme low between -0.1F and -5.0F... Similarily, Toronto, Ontario, Canada has an average extreme low of -2.3F and is also considered zone 6a. Personally I don't feel the new map includes enough data as the information should be based on the entire weather history of a location...

Thrid, good luck with your experiment. Not sure what you're testing, assume it must be something to slow respiration and increase sugar content in plant leaves. Sounds interesting. Freeze-Pruf IMO was released to the market without adequate research. There is still, to date, no peer-reviewed paper showing that the stuff ha any effects. It really bothers me when people say things like "Freeze-Pruf worked" since it got my palm through the winter in zone 7... Where are the controls? Where the formal data to back up the claims of the product manufacturer? I've seen some pics, but nothing more substantial then that. I do hope that it works, but I am waiting for the data to back it up.

I'm going to be doing a make-shift home garden experiment starting this summer. This is in no-way related t my PhD research and is more to contribute meaningful information to those of us trying to grow palms on the edge. It will involve T. fortunei, protection methods, and fungicide treatments. Not sure if I'll have the n to get significant results, but it'll be fun anyway (and I have 60 T. fortunei seedlings/small plants kicking around)!

Good luck with your project.

Paul,
lots of good stuff. As for taxonomy, I feel really ignorant as I am a zoologist by training and know that botanists have different conventions. Also, you'll notice I generally limit myself to genus names on this forum as I don't feel confident making IDs below that and am not sure which nursery labels/store labels to trust. I see the wrong tag in plants at stores all the time!

As to the experimental design you mentioned, and the problem of low N, one brainstorm I have is to combine the talents of the more experienced folks on this forum (e.g., Barb, Jim; NOT me 🙂 ) and run a multi-site study. Statistically, we could include "study site" as an independent variable. While I don't know nearly enough about growing palms, I do know a bit about experimental design and statistics. With effort, it could even be a blind trial ("fungicide A and fungicide B") with blind coders of foliage damage photos. I.e., the "double-blind" gold-standard in medical experiments.
--Erik

I appreciate your help, I am always welcome to whatever critisms others may have. The misrepresentation was just pure sloppiness on my behalf, for that i appologize. Yucca alofolia 'MARGINATA' is simply the terminology for vaiegated isn't it? I understant the zone map, I just think they could find a better way to assign climate categories. We have been sone 5 here according to the map unitl the new one, and i was always thrown by being told we have an apparent average winter minimum of -20F, maybe a wind chill on a rare occasion could possible hit that.

I did look into Freezepruf when it came out, but decided to stick my NoWilt instead since i can get it from local hardware stores. Peer review is extremely important, and i have to say i am a little suprised this wasn't done. Possibly just a quick way to make a buck, like celebrities creating their cologne and perfumes. I suppose i cannot say much, i have never used it, but i dont see where the active ingredients differ from i already use.

Thank you again, when i am done with my work and submit for review i will be glad you gave me this information. Though i doubt the department of psychology will care all that much, it is important to me. They just want to see research experience, but what is that worth if the experiments do not follow the proper methodology.

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