Dying Butia Ordorat...
 
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Dying Butia Ordorata?(capi. Var.)

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(@tropicallove7)
Posts: 8
Active Member
Topic starter
 

I have many palms in the ground here in St. Louis and every year i slightly decrease protection but stay ready to add more if needed. My favorite amongst them is my 8 year old Pindo which i moved this summer to a warmer more protected spot in the garden. We stayed in the mid 40's and up until late decmeber, and then we had the coldest two weeks i can remember. Ten days below 30 and four nights that dropped below 10. Never did it go below 5, i keep wirless sensors amongst the leaves when i prep them for winter so i can get detailed reads on the true temperature of foliar exposure(amazon has them for cheap, at least they used to). It is already completely defoilated which i know is very very bad! Generally damage shows itself gradually and even in spring if they look fine it can end up being a disaster. I have applied fungicide on two occassions since then. I also went covered a frame with tekfoil to allow light in and maintain temperature. This had increased the temperature significantly for the air and ground... the roots never froze, i wrapped the planting area with heat cables when i transplanted it. I may have done too much without following through on the other things. I was just hoping that since the past three years its been fine that it would push through. To my own fault its dying becuase i forgot that i transplanted it and its no longer established.

Does anyone have any tips for me on how to keep this poor thing stable for the remaining month or so of cold snaps?

Always striving for higher insight.

 
Posted : 28/01/2010 1:55 am
lucky1
(@lucky1)
Posts: 11322
Illustrious Member
 

welcome to the forum, tropical love 7:

If the ground never froze during the cold spell, and you've added heat cables around the roots, maybe ground become too dry?

increased the temperature significantly

And it still completely defoliated?

Tekfoil seems like a good product
http://www.teksupply.com/farm/supplies/cat1a;ts1_tekfoil_reflective_foil_insulation.html

Since you've applied fungicide twice, maybe it's just transplant shock and it'll come back early summer.
Hope so.

Can you post pics of your palms and protection?
Barb

<img src="http://weathersticker.wunderground.com/weathersticker/cgi-bin/banner/ban/wxBanner?bannertype=wu_bluestripes_both&airportcode=CWJV&ForcedCity=Vernon&ForcedState=Canada&wmo=71115&language=EN" alt="Find more about Weather in Vernon, CA" width="160" />

If you drink, don't drive. Don't even putt.

 
Posted : 28/01/2010 11:01 am
(@terdalfarm)
Posts: 2981
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Welcome to this forum. I'm also new here, and also joined for help with Butia.
I have a little one in the ground for its 3rd winter with no supplemental heat, just hay for insulation, water bottles buffer temp. changes, and a big bucket over top to keep rain and wind off. It looses its fronds each winter and so has to grow new ones each Summer. I.e., I treat it as deciduous. (The little photo by my name shows it in late Summer.)
I bought a large Butia last May. It is not established so I used heat tape on the trunk and built a flimsy plastic greenhouse. It still looks great despite the same cold weather you had earlier this Month. I plan to do the same for the next few winters at least (maybe until I can move south a few hundred miles?).
So, for yours, I think you are on the right track with the fungicide, watering the roots, keeping temps moderate and the trunk/spear dry. It will look awful until June/July.
As with Barb., photos would be fun for us to look at, especially if you follow up with Summer photos from 2010!
--Erik

 
Posted : 28/01/2010 11:31 am
(@hardyjim)
Posts: 4697
Illustrious Member
 

I lived in St.Louis for 30yrs(Go cards!)and you guys have been REALLY spoiled lately!
Not going below 0(F) for what? 10 yrs or something?Unheard of when I lived there.
I remember a few years in the 70s and 80s when it did not go above freezing for 3 weeks!
In the 70s there was snow on the ground for almost 2 months.I think the record is like 60-something days?
We have all gotten spoiled the last 10-15yrs.
Even where I live in Iowa now it has been 30below zero in the past(during the 80s I think 83?)

Anyway,to answer your question-I made a mistake with some of my newly planted palms this year
treating them like my more established stuff and really mistreating my established stuff!

Baby it,keep it as warm as you can with minimal low night temps.
Don't let it see any rain/moisture when freezing temps are forecast this spring,only warm late spring like rains.
Keep it covered later but DON'T let it overheat!
Wait until late April(especially the way the last 2-3 springs have been cool)to totally remove protection or-
at least cover it during cool/cold spells when rain is eminent.
I did this with a few of my Trachys that sprear pulled in Nov the fall before and they both were on line again by May 1-

Good luck-
Post some pics-
What area do you live in?

<img src="http://weathersticker.wunderground.com/weathersticker/big2_cond/language/www/US/IA/Fairfield.gif" alt="Click for Fairfield, Iowa Forecast" border="0" height="60" width="468" />

 
Posted : 28/01/2010 2:48 pm
(@tropicallove7)
Posts: 8
Active Member
Topic starter
 

Thank you all so much. I agree with you that we have gotten spoiled here! I can remember the late 80's somewhat and i remember a lot of snow! I generally welcome the snow though with my palms, its the wind and freezing rain that gets me anxious.

Barb,
you are probably right about transplant shock becuase it did loose a few fronds when i moved it.
I can post pictures, i have tons of them, winter/summer pictures. People will probably be disapointed in my winter protection though. I do the bare minimum for the most part. Everything im doing is part of current research im doing for grad school applications, so i have to use a standard and control group, those are the ones which get most of the protection, well somewhat. I have been monitor cellular respiration and sugar production in
palms since 2000. Objective is to find a way to basically feed your plants anitfreeze naturally/organic. Results have been decent, maybe in a few more years ill have something concrete and effective for everyone! Im hoping! So far the only luck has been with heliconia rhizomes, still exciting.

Always striving for higher insight.

 
Posted : 28/01/2010 5:55 pm
(@hardyjim)
Posts: 4697
Illustrious Member
 

You should read the findings from "Growing palms in Colorado springs USDA zone 5b"
They covered all this info pretty well-I can e-mail it to you if you PM me your e-mail address.

<img src="http://weathersticker.wunderground.com/weathersticker/big2_cond/language/www/US/IA/Fairfield.gif" alt="Click for Fairfield, Iowa Forecast" border="0" height="60" width="468" />

 
Posted : 28/01/2010 10:31 pm
lucky1
(@lucky1)
Posts: 11322
Illustrious Member
 

disapointed in my winter protection

And then you can laugh at some of ours!
We're all flailing around doing the best we can, wishing we could leave them unprotected so they'd all look like the Trachies in English Bay Vancouver.
It's kinda difficult to look out the window to enjoy your palm when it's encased in plywood for 4 months 😆

Cool research you're doing.
Dr. David Francko was on here some time ago since he developed the Freeze-Pruf.
Great discussions.
I tried it (a little late I think when it was already -8C 17F) and a month later the leaves look shredded, even though they were protected from all wind.

Heliconia are gorgeous tropical plants.
Maybe your research will work for Bird of Paradise too...also fleshy.

Jim's suggestion re that article is worth pursuing, a very good read re palms flourishing in Colorado.
We just had a link to that story here a couple of weeks ago...can't find it.

So...camera? pics? let's start with winter, since that's unfortunately where we are...
Indoor tropical pics are welcome too.
Barb

<img src="http://weathersticker.wunderground.com/weathersticker/cgi-bin/banner/ban/wxBanner?bannertype=wu_bluestripes_both&airportcode=CWJV&ForcedCity=Vernon&ForcedState=Canada&wmo=71115&language=EN" alt="Find more about Weather in Vernon, CA" width="160" />

If you drink, don't drive. Don't even putt.

 
Posted : 28/01/2010 10:56 pm
(@tropicallove7)
Posts: 8
Active Member
Topic starter
 

sorry for the delay, it took me a long time to figure out how to upload pictures. Then i had to set up a photobucket account so i could do so. I only grabbed a couple for now from years past. I will post more recent ones later. these are summer and winter photos.

Hopefully this works!

IMG] [/IMG]]

[/img]

Always striving for higher insight.

 
Posted : 29/01/2010 1:03 am
(@terdalfarm)
Posts: 2981
Famed Member
 

Thanks for the photos! We love them here.
I, too, struggle to load photos on this forum so it isn't just you. I'm glad you persevered.
Can you help me identify what all is in the first photo?
--Erik

 
Posted : 29/01/2010 9:25 am
lucky1
(@lucky1)
Posts: 11322
Illustrious Member
 

Nice pics of better days for that Butia.
What side of the house is it? east? south?

Great third pic...what is that lovely shrub that blooms so profusely?
What's the other one? a cordyline? striking burgundy leaf edges. How have you protected it this winter?

Ya, I've never been able to post a pic from my hard drive, but I've had a Flickr account for years so find it's easy to post from that repository.
The buttons (above) are toggle on/toggle off, paste URL of picture location in between.
Easier than learning code (yawn...)

Your other palms outdoors...were they all planted this year, or have some gone through a protected winter previously?

Have you got some palms overwintering indoors too?
My house is too full...of palms and fungus gnats 😉

Barb

<img src="http://weathersticker.wunderground.com/weathersticker/cgi-bin/banner/ban/wxBanner?bannertype=wu_bluestripes_both&airportcode=CWJV&ForcedCity=Vernon&ForcedState=Canada&wmo=71115&language=EN" alt="Find more about Weather in Vernon, CA" width="160" />

If you drink, don't drive. Don't even putt.

 
Posted : 29/01/2010 10:58 am
(@paul-ont)
Posts: 1385
Noble Member
 

I'm sorry- Is this post about you failing to protect your Butia in zone 6 St. Louis? It looks good in that picture!

Love the Crepe Myrtles, wish they could take temps below 0f and look good the next year... But, alas...

Is that a Yucca alofolia cultivar in the third picture?

Welcome aboard
Thanks!

<img src="http://weathersticker.wunderground.com/weathersticker/miniWeather2_both_cond/language/www/global/stations/71265.gif" />

 
Posted : 29/01/2010 11:33 am
(@terdalfarm)
Posts: 2981
Famed Member
 

Barb,

Great third pic...what is that lovely shrub that blooms so profusely?

I think I can help with that. It looks like a variety of crape myrtle (Lagerstoemia indica). They love heat and humidity and so are a staple down here. In tropical areas they are evergreen but in my garden they are deciduous and don't need protection (well, we'll see. I planted three in May and gave them no winter protection other than mulch).
I think you could grow them as a perennial where you live.
--Erik

 
Posted : 29/01/2010 11:37 am
lucky1
(@lucky1)
Posts: 11322
Illustrious Member
 

Erik, and Paul (thanks!), I've never seen the c.myrtles here or even when I lived in Vancouver 30+ years ago.
This area could supply enough heat in summer, but zilch humidity with desert-dry winds June July & Aug day and night.

Barb

<img src="http://weathersticker.wunderground.com/weathersticker/cgi-bin/banner/ban/wxBanner?bannertype=wu_bluestripes_both&airportcode=CWJV&ForcedCity=Vernon&ForcedState=Canada&wmo=71115&language=EN" alt="Find more about Weather in Vernon, CA" width="160" />

If you drink, don't drive. Don't even putt.

 
Posted : 29/01/2010 12:33 pm
(@terdalfarm)
Posts: 2981
Famed Member
 

Barb,
give one a try. They are cheap (at least here). I'd grow them even if they were annuals.
--Erik

 
Posted : 29/01/2010 12:54 pm
(@hardyjim)
Posts: 4697
Illustrious Member
 

Variegated Aloifolia is beautiful,I have two of those in my little cactus g-house/winter shelter.
How long have you had it/do you protect it at all?

They really turn a beautiful shade of red as the nights go below freezing and when they get hit again(uncovered)with spring sunshine.

Wish I would have been doing this in St.Louis when I lived there,would have been nice to use more temporary covers.

<img src="http://weathersticker.wunderground.com/weathersticker/big2_cond/language/www/US/IA/Fairfield.gif" alt="Click for Fairfield, Iowa Forecast" border="0" height="60" width="468" />

 
Posted : 29/01/2010 2:25 pm
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