Yep,great book.
You can also find great info on this site,Garden Web Forum and also from googleing cold hardy palms.
Unfortunately one of my farorite sites-Growing palms in Colorado Springs USDA 5b-is no longer available,this was one of the best sites with plenty of technical data and great info in general.Another good site is Cool Tropics.

Thanks hj, and now I must go web surfing to look at these sites.

I did enjoy the Colorado one which I saw awhile back. I noticed he had posted on here a few times.

I know it's a bit on a high note but there are some neat things discussed in it. The author's advice got me to try some plants I would have never tried here and I've succeeded with most of them.
Anyone else find this book helpful?

I think it's needless to say, but this book is the best source for starting into the 'hardy-tropical' side of gardening. There is certainly a lot of great information contained therein and I reccomend reading it from cover to cover! I have one note however, the cold temperatures he gives are a bit on the low side, and typically I see damage at warmer temperatures. Not really a big deal I guess, I just like to see that people are cautious enough to get their plants thrugh the winter looking great (i.e. not dissappointed when their new bamboo browns out or is killed by -2f when he lists it as hardy to -15f)!!

I don't know what's happened to John in Colorado. I heard he was having personal problems and that he might be leaving Colo. Springs. He had some serious research into how much cold a plam really can take, and the perfect climate to test it. He was one of, if not the only, person I know of to get a needle palm through -20f. And his work with Trachycarpus spp. was also impressive. I really found the stuff on how a drought stressed palm can take more cold then a well watered one... Very interesting stuff.

Great book indeed. I seem to be a bit slow on my responces, as you guys had it covered. He did make me think about planting a live oak. A Texas one though of course Q. virginiana var. fusiformis I think it would do ok here if I got a big one to start. I liked the info on crape myrtles and southern magnolias as well. I have 3 good sized ones all over 7 feet so will see how the data holds up. The winters in Ohio are colder than here for sure.

Bill

I know it's a bit on a high note but there are some neat things discussed in it. The author's advice got me to try some plants I would have never tried here and I've succeeded with most of them.
Anyone else find this book helpful?

I think it's needless to say, but this book is the best source for starting into the 'hardy-tropical' side of gardening. There is certainly a lot of great information contained therein and I reccomend reading it from cover to cover! I have one note however, the cold temperatures he gives are a bit on the low side, and typically I see damage at warmer temperatures. Not really a big deal I guess, I just like to see that people are cautious enough to get their plants thrugh the winter looking great (i.e. not dissappointed when their new bamboo browns out or is killed by -2f when he lists it as hardy to -15f)!!

I don't know what's happened to John in Colorado. I heard he was having personal problems and that he might be leaving Colo. Springs. He had some serious research into how much cold a plam really can take, and the perfect climate to test it. He was one of, if not the only, person I know of to get a needle palm through -20f. And his work with Trachycarpus spp. was also impressive. I really found the stuff on how a drought stressed palm can take more cold then a well watered one... Very interesting stuff.

Paul,the last I heard he had lost a lot of his palms, because of some sustained cold the last winter(days below freezing) which was a little discouraging but then again they never really protected much besides a tarp and withholding water.
I wonder if he lost some of his data when the site they used closed down.

BTW. his site was the one I modeled my cold hardypalm experiment after.The only difference was that I found I had to water a little more with new palms but his is a great plan.

Well if he needs his info I tried to keep what I could when his site was active in my attempt to understand his theory on thresholds in re-establishing new growth. I used to look it over and over.....

I was fascinated with the idea of having enough growing degree days to build up the plant's reserves again so it doesn't slowly decline year after year. Like he wrote, palms may survive but decline in the long run if they can't build up their reserves.

Well if he needs his info I tried to keep what I could when his site was active in my attempt to understand his theory on thresholds in re-establishing new growth. I used to look it over and over.....

I was fascinated with the idea of having enough growing degree days to build up the plant's reserves again so it doesn't slowly decline year after year. Like he wrote, palms may survive but decline in the long run if they can't build up their reserves.

If I recall correctly, he and I had messaged back and forth on the HP and S board since he was starting to reise his GDD numbers for Trachycarpus. He was also looking in to T. fort x T. fort v. wag hybrids which might have superior tolerance to cold then either parent... Anyway, we discussed this little guy, a Trachy I've been 'sacrificing' to test how long a Trachy can live with cold damage and just what it needs to actually get bigger in an eastern zone 5!

Anyway, in case your interested, I had planted a T. fortunei (B.C. seed) plant in the summer of 2006. The first winter it was protected with mulch and a 'Rhodo cone'. I'll never use a Rhodo cone again, worst protection ever. I warn you now, the following images are graphic, it might be best to send small children out of the room!

Here is what it looked like in the spring of 2007, it gives you an idea of the size when planted:
<img src=" " alt="IMGP0924">
100% defoliation and I thought it was a goner... Wait, what's that? Canada Day 2007:
<img src=" " alt="imgp1029">
Fall 2007:
<img src=" " alt="imgp1079">
Spring 2008:
<img src=" " alt="fortunei0608">
Spring 2009 (it's the one in front left):
<img src=" " alt="DSC01916">

Since the first winter I've protected it the following way: Wrapped the leaves in frost cloth and give it a 3" layer of mulch.
I'll have to get a shot of it heading into this winter. I guess if it survives again I can start to give it some proper protection...

You can see that since total defoliation it has grown a little each summer before being cut back a bit each subsequent winter. This was a small plant when planted and it remains small. I think it is really remarkable that it still struggles on. I have a needle plam that has been treated the same way, and it is starting to regain it's equilibrium... Not sure if I have done a pictoral review of that one... hmmm...

Some of my conclusions of growing Trachycarpus in zone 5: 1) it takes a small palms a long time to recover from defoliation. 2) In northern latitudes palms recover very slowly (late soil warmup, early frost, long winter). 3) In zone 5 small palms need less protection then you'd think to maintain 'most' of their foliage. 4) The base 50 GDD required to recover from full defoliation might be something greater then 3500 (or 2.5-3+ full summers in zone 5), for a small palm.

That was great stuff wasn't it?
I remember seeing Trachycarpus neede 3200 gdd to regrow lost mass,pretty easy in my area.The one that may prove difficult in the long run in zone 5 is Washingtonia,I think it needed 4200 or 4600 or 4800 don't remember exactly but this would show that these need to retain some of their leaves over the winter to make it in the long haul.

I am curious if you copied his site? If you did,or have some of his info maybe you could e-mail it to me at jimpdelaney@yahoo.com

If not thats fine too,I also went over it again and again.
What a great site!

Paul,I tend to agree with the earlier est of 3200.
I do agree a small palm would have big problems.
My Naini Tal had spear pull last Nov and totally defoliated over winter,it has since regrown and is on it's 7th leaf.
I have a Wag/fort that had spear pull in Nov also and I believe this one is no it's 6th leaf.

If you click on this site(webshots)you can see my S.louisiana(left) and my Naini Tal(right)click where it says next(upper right) to see how they look now-Sabal is growing it's third leaf Naini Tal going on 7.
I think the biggest factor in growing cold hardy palms is the overall health of the palm first,the rest of the crosses or the Bulgarian form or Greensboro form to me is debatable as far as wheather these are hardier,IMO.

http://home-and-garden.webshots.com/photo/2041066320105497902JhhUqM

Wow Paul that was graphic! You better buy that poor little guy a drink before this winter comes and have a nice little chat with him :argue: !!!

Good stuff for sure, after this winter you should have yourself a pretty hardy palm after he regains some strength. I think he might need some counciling for sure though.

Bill

I agree that 3200 GDD might be correct for a defoliated but otherwise healthy plant (i.e. established). But I've shown that in a small unestablished palm it will take more then 3500 GDD if it's health is maintained (and even more if it gets knocked back in winter it wil obviously need more).

I don't know about the GDD given for Washingtonia. It seems to me that Washingtonia is one of the easier plams to grow with damage. They are much faster growing then other 'hardy' palms, which, if you think about it, means that they can recover faster then other palms. I will say that daytime heat would be much more important for Washgintonia then it would for other spp... But, with the warmer damage temp there is more of a risk of winter kill then there is in other species.

I think your right about the smaller palms,Trachys really need quite a few mature leaves to be large enough to recover during the growing season.
I would also like to add that there is a big difference in the GDD that is based on avg air temps for a given area,for one thing most of us up north are growing our palms(or should be) in our "protected" micro climates on the favored side(usually south) of our homes,etc.There is quite a bit of difference between the cactus bed where the max temp (15" off the ground) so far this summer is 106F and the max air temp is about 93F .
I am sure the GDD for my micro climate -at ground level where the plants are- averages almost 10% higher than the air temps.

This is the very first book I purchased on growing cold hardy palms. Great book.

John

Is there a good site that shows the average growing degree days of cities? Seems to me I can look mine up on Environment Canada but any other sites out there?

I like how Dr. Francko pointed out that people are willing to water their plants in summer to keep their plants alive but heaven forbid they should cover them in winter. 😉