Hi Paul,

just too cold! Too bad to see all the nice plants die from winter cold..........but if you didn't experiment you would never know if they could survive. Don't give up on Y. baccata as I've read reports they can take some cold temps but need to by dry in winter. I bet some of the newer Yucca hybrids like filamentosa x rostrata may improve hardiness.......only time will tell.

Paul,
thanks for sharing. I know it is painful/embarrassing, but I think we learn more from failures (and subsequent analysis) than success. It is all well and good to say, "look how great ____ looks!" but we also need stories like yours.
Then we can share our successes/failures to try to collectively figure out what they need to thrive.
In that spirit, I'll add that a fairly large, in-ground two years Phyllsotachys aurea I had died this past winter despite mulching and snow cover. I'm trying with another I got cheap, but in short you're right: not the best choice for cold winter areas.
--Erik

Paul,
thanks for sharing. I know it is painful/embarrassing, but I think we learn more from failures (and subsequent analysis) than success. It is all well and good to say, "look how great ____ looks!"
--Erik

Erik- I totally agree. The posts that Jim made of his dead/recovering Trachys are very informative.

Maybe you know about another topic I was thinking about. I have some Phyllostachys that I think are getting smaller each year. Now, John from CO had his theory about palm damage and the 'threshold' necessary for recovery. I've not heard about it in non-palms, but I assume it also applies. Any experience with a plant that refuses to die, but keeps getting smaller year after year? I can think of a few examples, one of my Rhodies, all my Aucuba, those Phyllostachys, some of my hollies, etc. There are also the plants that get damaged but keep growing, like paw-paw and willow-oak, which generally get damaged but continue to add size. I think it's quite interesting.

Paul

I guess some plants have a lot more bullets than most single shot palms and they keep on ticking!

Here's a recent shot(10-8-10) of one of the trunk cut Trachys-

😀

Wow, Jim, you definitely are the king of trunk-cutting.
So why didn't it work for my Naini Tal (RIP)???
I still think leaves AFTER trunk cutting look better than prior-to-damage.
Almost like a related species. Wonder why.

Paul, thanks for posting that informative recap.
Interesting that your first palm in 99 was a Phoenix...tough way to start

Interesting observation you made:

Any experience with a plant that refuses to die, but keeps getting smaller year after year?

That's exactly what's happening to my Bottle Palm.
When I bought it 2,3 years?? ago, there was 6 inches before its emerging spear would have scraped the popcorn off my 8-foot ceiling.
Each successive spear (and bottles don't get a lot of them, one or two a year) is shorter.
Today there's a clear 2 feet to the ceiling.

Warning of decline, leading to death spiral? or just a smaller palm that might live another 20 years?

Sad to see what didn't make it Paul, glad your Y.elata is healthy. So is mine, but growth is slow.

Here's my latest soon to be RIP...my Yucca (incorrectly labeled rostrata), damaged after last winter.
One head is still alive, barely (no point in trunk cutting, since the process only works if your name is Jim!)

It used to look like this... 😥

This learning process is getting painful, and expensive.

Great post topic, Paul.
Barb

Now and last Sept

Not to shabby 8)

Not too shabby...I'd trade my knowledge for yours in a heartbeat.
But you'd get the raw deal. 😆

Hi Barb,

your 'rostrata' has a nice offset emerging........I'm sure that will take off on you! Good luck!

Thanks Tim, but that offset was huge ... forming part of the two-headed Yucca (picture didn't show that part).
I fear even that's declining too, only 1/5 the size it was before winter.
Barb

Good post Paul. I too have had many things die over the years and I have some things that I tried and tried untill I found one that would survive. I never give up, well I have given up on palms here. But I have found lots of good subs. 😀

Nice pics Paul. How's your needle and sable that are protected in your palm hut? Any pics of that?? How'd your big rhodo's doing too??

Holy smokes.. I leave for the weekend and come back to some really interesting conversation!

From the top:
Barb- The palm was a potted dwarf Phoenix. It made it until November, I hadn't done any research at that point, so did not even consider the idea of protecting it from the cold. I agree with Tim that your Yucca will come back. The top rotted, but Yuccas are really resilient... be patient. I've even had Yucca glauca do that before.

Jim- It looks like you have more than enough GDD for Trachycarpus to make a full recovery. I am very impressed with that recovery. I won't post the pics of my old 'test' palm that declined over the years... It was never able to reach equilibrium and died this past summer (or winter...), conditions probably were a contributing factor.

Desertzone- Don't give up on palms! I've been accused of being negative, but I think that anyone can get palms through the winter with a little help! I mean, look at that guy in Winnipeg! Also- You've been successful with Yucca brevifolia, and I have to think that there are palms as tough as Joshua tree!

Scott- The needle and Sabal are doing OK. The Sabal is finally looking like a palm again, I think it grew 1 full leaf this year! The needle is growing well. I might try to push them a little harder next year with an extra fertilizer application. I also have 3 good sized S. minor NE Texas that I will plant out next spring, perhaps with the new Sabal 'Brazoria' and 'Birmingham', which I will plant out front by the Musa basjoo. I've been lazy with all those Trachycarpus seedlings, I need to just send them to people or plant them all out.

The Rhodo's are OK. Those that are a little exposed, or that start into growth early (the big one, R. brachycarpum ssp. tigerstedtii, included) got the new growth frosted, so this years leaves are slightly deformed. For whatever reason Rhodo leaves that are frost damaged continue to grow but have sever distortions making them far less attractive... Anyway.

I'm within a hair of adding Gunnera to the lost list. I dug it out and it now has 1 tiny leaf. I hope I can get it to a respectable size over the winter and plant it out again in 2 years time! I also lost a Magnolia macrophyllum this summer (rabbits, that's 3 that I've lost, 2 to rabbits, 1 to summer drought) and an 'evergreen' Azalea.

Double Post. Please ignore.

Not too shabby...I'd trade my knowledge for yours in a heartbeat.
But you'd get the raw deal. 😆

Barb

if I ended up as cool as you I would still gain something 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀

All I did was take the saw out!

Paul

just because you are away for a while doesn't mean you get to double post! 😉 😉