Thinking of buying a green house-HELP

Kansas · Post by **Kansas** » Thu Dec 21, 2006 9:04 am

My wife has come to the realisation that I am NOT giving up on my palms and she knows how much I like them.
So she has told me that in a month or so I can buy a greenhouse. I am in zone 5. I was thinking of one of those $200 - $300 ones at Home Depot or Harbor Freight. Are these good enough for me.
Also, would it be alright to use a space heater in the greenhouse on really cold nights and heat bulbs on every other winters night?
After this year, I am a big believer in letting things get cold and NOT lkeeping them warm (70's) all winter as I am losing trees all the time due to the still, dry air of the basement. Last year I kept my Valencia Orange inside. By this time last year it had lost close to 1/2 it's leaves presumably cause of dry air. This year, after leaving it in the unheated garage where it gets very humid and moist air, it has lost maybe 10-12 leaves and when we went thru those warm days a couple weeks ago, it actually put out 14-15 new flowers.
So, I'de like to do the green house thing. Any advise?

oppalm · Post by **oppalm** » Thu Dec 21, 2006 10:19 am

you probably know this but there is a greenhouse forum on gardenweb that discusses in depth the Harbor Freight greenhouses. I personally think those are very good greenhouses for the money but you will have to do a few things to properly secure and shore up the greenhouse (for not alot of money). Most people seem to be pretty happy with their Harbor Freight greenhouses. If you sign up to receive emails on the Harbor Freight website they will send you a 20% discount coupon too. Its all about saving money.

Barrie · Post by **Barrie** » Thu Dec 21, 2006 11:23 am

One thing about greenhouses. They fill up amazingly fast. I have a 1,000 sq ft greenhouse and it was full in the first year! You lose a certain amount of floor space with having to gain access and moving around inside it. I have a 4' wide access/walkway that runs the length of the greenhouse down the center. That's 200 sq ft lost right away and spacing inbetween plants etc to gain access for watering, and so I figure an other 15% loss there.
So the end result is 35% floor space lost (a little over 1/3) even if you maximize like I have done.
As well, many districts have by-laws that require a site inspection and restrictions on size/height etc. It just takes one nosey neighbor or passer-by to file a complaint (you'd be surprized how many are out there).
I don't wan't to discourage you, but just point out a few issues so you're not taken by surprize.

Cheers, Barrie.

ryan · Post by **ryan** » Thu Dec 21, 2006 1:56 pm

I would buy a harbor freight greenhouse if I lived in the US. Since you are thinking of purchasing an inexpensive one that will hopefully last several years I would recommend a 10' X 12' for the added space if you don't mind paying the extra heating costs. A 8' X 6' can get full very quickly especially if you like growing bananas.

.

macario · Post by **macario** » Thu Dec 21, 2006 5:14 pm

Hello well here is something to think about. I got a square one made with green plastic and steel tube 1 1/2 inch that i odered from online. The reason I chose this was because I planted my palms in the ground and I know there going to grow taller over time. And instead of buy new green house to fit over them you can add extra pipe at the base wich will make the green house taller like making the legs longer, and you can keep doing this damn near forever lol mine is 8 ft in the center atthe peak but if I ad a 3ft extension to all the legs it will be 11 feet at the center.The one thing you will need to do once you make the legs longer is just order a new plastic cover thats longer to take up the space you make from make it taller. You call and tell em what size you need and they will send it for about 100 - 150 dollars each new cover.

oppalm · Post by **oppalm** » Thu Dec 21, 2006 7:22 pm

Barrie is right about zoning restrictions. I live in a neighborhood with a Homes Associateion and free standing structures of any kind are not allowed in yards, i.e storage sheds, greenhouses, etc. You have to get board approval to put up a swing set or basketball goal (you have to submit plans and a picture). Is this a great country or what? Do you homework first and then decide what you can or can't do and then plan from there. Best of luck.

macario · Post by **macario** » Thu Dec 21, 2006 7:40 pm

I forgot that there are places like that. Well hopefully you can get something you want. Im glad I dont live in your part of this country lol. If someone told me I couldnt do something I wanted on my own property I would go nuts. Its like that in most of our suburbs, but thats why I dont live there.

PALMETTOMAN · Post by **PALMETTOMAN** » Fri Dec 22, 2006 9:49 pm

Kansas,

Ever given thought to a greenhouse for your seedlings and small specimens (6 by 10) and then a winter hoop-house?

If its a seasonal structure (not permanent), usually you can get around the by-law crap, if one exists..

I want to build a seasonal structure attached to my kitchen using a material called Palruf (Home Depot)..The panels will be re-moveable so only the roof will be covered year round. In winter I'll cover off the sides etc and heat it...16 by 16...

Same prob as you Kansas..lots of stuff and basement is drying up everything like crazy...

My garage is now doing the trick...as is the outside porch....

Your right..better the cool temps than the basement..

Palmettoman z6=Ajax, On

Kansas · Post by **Kansas** » Sat Dec 23, 2006 7:20 am

Got a new plan, but wait, this might change in the next hour

I have an insulated shed, bout 8' deep by 6' tall and 6' wide. Right now I have my hand tools, BBQ stuff, lawn mower and weed eater and other stuff in. The shed is actually well insulated. I remeber when it was VERY cold out, I had to run out to get a screwdriver and the shed was warm inside.
I think I will move the hand tools into the basement where the trees are. Move the mower & WE and BBQ stuff into my garage.
Then move the trees into the shed. I will have 4 grow lights going & a space heater on REALLY cold nights. THat way it will still be humid and moist, and during nicer days (50'), I can prop the door open and they can get actual sun rays.
Sound good???

macario · Post by **macario** » Sat Dec 23, 2006 7:36 am

Now that sounds like a plan!

PALMETTOMAN · Post by **PALMETTOMAN** » Sat Dec 23, 2006 3:52 pm

Thats called innovation Kansas....

As long as you can keep those temps above 20F-28F on the coldest of days and nites...you should be fine...

Blankets along the walls will help and a heat lamp or a few spot grows will do the trick...

Here's my garage greenhouse...Year 4...all the plants have survived down to about 17F--6C-8C-2 nites last yr. lowest temps...This yr.nothing below 40F....yet...? Thanks to El Nino...I regulate the heat and spray mist like crazy...

Let us know how things go...

Palmettoman z6-Ajax
http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictu ... 2097718612

Kansas · Post by **Kansas** » Sat Dec 23, 2006 4:01 pm

Yes, that is EXACTLY what I wanted to do in my garage, but the wife said no. So I am thinking the shed is the next best.

PALMETTOMAN · Post by **PALMETTOMAN** » Sat Dec 23, 2006 4:28 pm

Kansas,

My wife has absolutely no choice here..the garage and basement are my space....

Besides..since I overwintered her annuals, rosemary, eucalyptus and thyme its reason enough to just let it be dude...

She still cuses me though when tryin to park her car..

Palmettoman z6-Ajax, On

Kansas · Post by **Kansas** » Sun Dec 24, 2006 7:56 am

Palmetto, do you want to sell one of your Trachys? I need one about the size of the one in the 2nd photo.

PALMETTOMAN · Post by **PALMETTOMAN** » Sun Dec 24, 2006 3:41 pm

Kansas,

That palm is from South Carolina...A $10 (no kidding), roadside special bought from along Hwy 17 just south of Myrtle Beach...

If you want it...it's yours...!

The problem is because I reside in the Peoples Republic of Canada shipping and all the paperwork may be a a lot of red tape etc...with US Customs....

If I lived stateside like you I would simply drive to the low-country of S/Carolina...Leave on a Wednesday and be back by Sunday. Your probably about a day and a half away and load up on the trachy's, sable's, sago's, euro's and washy's and bring em back home.

There are plenty of nurseries that specialize in these palms all over the coastal route...In fact, when I'm there I'm kinda like a kid in the candy store....

The trachy's @ the nurseries are usually $30 and up for the same size...

Here there about $100 if you can find one?

This summer I picked up 2 trachy's for $10 each from a plant truck sale along the coastal 17 Hwy..The palms come up from Florida I think...

Every visit I make to S/Carolina, I bring back 1 or 2 specimens.

Have a GR8 Christmas Kansas...

Palmettoman z6-Ajax, On

Kansas · Post by **Kansas** » Sun Dec 24, 2006 7:52 pm

I'de be more than happy to pay shipping if your serious. I know I buy from SSI Joe (Banana Joe) and he is in Canada. If youd like I can write him and ask what kind of customs stuff he goes thru. I really do not think it is much since he ships to the US almost every day and I know when I asked him how much he charges, he only charges $5 for shipping of seedlings.
So if your serious, I can do some checking. HOWEVER, i would refuse to take it for free. I'de have to give you some Butia seeds or something and I'de pay postage.

PALMETTOMAN · Post by **PALMETTOMAN** » Mon Dec 25, 2006 12:12 pm

I'm serious Kansas..find out from Joe how it goes and let me know...

Palmettoman z6-Ajax, On

Alchris · Post by **Alchris** » Tue Dec 26, 2006 8:38 am

Hey Palmettoman;

How did you get the palms through customs at the border?

Allen

PALMETTOMAN · Post by **PALMETTOMAN** » Tue Dec 26, 2006 10:16 am

Edmonton,

I did some research a few years back I think it was with a site through Canada Customs and spoke to an agent...I found out you can bring plants into Canada from the US that are deemed houseplants as long as they are not native to Canada...

I was told you can bring up to 20 or 50 at a time..?

There are folks who move from the states with their personal household effects so I think that's why they allow this...

I'm assuming these non-native houseplants are not a threat to the wild life of Canada since they are kept indoors...?

Nobody assumes a palm is an outdoor plant in this GR8 country of ours.....

Of course i don't think you can dig up a maple and bring it across the border.

I have brought up fresh fruits from Florida and the Carolina's as well as veggies from our friends farm and never had an issue with Can/Customs...

Our second home is Georgetown S/Carolina..So, every trip to the low-country of S/Carolina I am able to tuck a palm or 2 away in my vehicle.

Now, entering the US (with as much as an apple), can cause you problems...

Palmettoman z6-Ajax, On

Kansas · Post by **Kansas** » Tue Dec 26, 2006 10:21 am

Have not heard from Joe yet...
But i think that if it is not a threat to be an invasive plant, customs does not have a problem.
Can you call your local post office? Not sure when Joe will get back to me

PALMETTOMAN · Post by **PALMETTOMAN** » Tue Dec 26, 2006 10:54 am

Kansas,

I'll check with them (Canada Post) (Canada Customs) as soon as I can since today is a national holiday...

Will let you know as soon as i find out what goes in to the process from here.....Perhaps you can find out what US Customs wants from your end?

Anything entering the US now is subject to one hell of a scrutiny since everything is under the arm of Homeland Security...but what the heck...lets give her a try!...

If you can find out anything from B/Joe let me know...

PS..little tip on adding humidity to your shedhouse...Plug in your heater and aim it directly at a pale of hot water about 3-4 inches away...it will heat the water and add some humidity to the specimans!

Palmettoman z6-Ajax, On

Kansas · Post by **Kansas** » Tue Dec 26, 2006 11:55 am

I shall do that.
By the way, I just today received 13-14 cycad seeds. The sender doesn't know what kind they are.
What is tre best soil to germinate these?

PALMETTOMAN · Post by **PALMETTOMAN** » Tue Dec 26, 2006 5:01 pm

Kansas,

I'm not so sure but I would tend to think a soil that is rich in humus...so a real good pottin soil like Schultz or Miracle Grow.

Sago's are very nice but take a heck of a time to grow..Mine always seems to do well in humidity with morning sun...

I see you boys have quite a collection?

Palmettoman z6-Ajax, On

PALMETTOMAN · Post by **PALMETTOMAN** » Tue Dec 26, 2006 5:11 pm

Kansas,

Excellent site on the inet..

Go under "soil for sago seedings"...very useful...

I'm going to look at this...

By the way..how long does it take for you to grow a Sago? Up here their $40 for a small one at the nursery..

Palmettoman z6-Ajax, On

Kansas · Post by **Kansas** » Tue Dec 26, 2006 5:22 pm

Yea, they take forever to grow, but to me, a nice cute lil sago is almost as good as a big one. I like the baby sago.
FORTY DOLLARS???? how big is your "small one". Here and we are FAR from tropical, you can get them for $10 for small ones (baseball size caudex).
However, I lucked out this last Summer and went to Wal Mart and found a Revy with a foot long trunk marked for $12. I understand these usually sell for $100 a foot.
If I get that Fortunei from you, I'll send a couple Cycad seeds that I got today germinating to you and a bunch of Butia too.

PALMETTOMAN · Post by **PALMETTOMAN** » Tue Dec 26, 2006 5:59 pm

Kansas,

Yeah the little Sago's are cute..The Revaluta's make a statement in real nice pot's as a focal point in your landscape...

Mine's about a 1.5 feet high..They like the Miracle Grow feeding spikes for ferns...

It would be nice to try and grow one from seed as you have suggested..They can be quite expensive...

Walmart or Home Depot now stocks them but their still expensive. Some folks bonsai them...

The King Sago's are my favorite...

Palmettoman z6-Ajax, On

Kansas · Post by **Kansas** » Tue Dec 26, 2006 7:00 pm

"They like the Miracle Grow feeding spikes for ferns.."

Never thought of that. I think I will try those.
If you want some Cycads or Dioons cheap but the best you can buy, go to this guy http://chumleycycads.com/contact.html

Call him instead of going thru his ordering on the site thou as he is a WONDERFUL guy to speak with. Just tell him Wes White in Topeka Kansas told you about him. I bought $100 worth of stuff from him and he gave me about another $100 worth of extras.

PALMETTOMAN · Post by **PALMETTOMAN** » Tue Dec 26, 2006 7:47 pm

Hey Kansas...

Thanks..I'll check out his site...

Sago's are unique...

The spikes really greened up my sago's last yr...Use them in spring & summer...about 5 to a pot...

Same with your hardy palms but use the palm spikes...Walmart sells em as does H/Depot or Lowes..They really greened up nice toward late summer and gave off some real pretty fronds...

Any tips for Sago care in winter?

Palmettoman z6-Ajax, On

Kansas · Post by **Kansas** » Wed Dec 27, 2006 8:07 am

Winter care for Cycads is basically don't mother hen them.
Thats one of the reasons I like Cycads more than Palms. With a Palm, they get spear pull, but Cycads, I just leave in a corner with a grow light, don't have to mist, don't have to water but maybe 1 time a month.

PALMETTOMAN · Post by **PALMETTOMAN** » Wed Dec 27, 2006 10:49 am

Thanks for the tip's Kansas...

You've convinced me..On my next trip to the Carolina low country I'll grab me one of those King Sago's (a small to medium sized one).

You've got my message on the trachy so we will set the wheels in motion..

Is there anything from your end that US customs or DHS requires? I'm assuming the phyto is all thats needed?

Palmettoman z6-Ajax, On

Kansas · Post by **Kansas** » Wed Dec 27, 2006 1:27 pm

I would think down there, you could get a medium one for around $20-$30 and it will be a pretty darn big one.

PalmsNorth.com

Thinking of buying a green house-HELP

Thinking of buying a green house-HELP

Some points to consider.

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