Trachy's Tougher Than I Thought! ~ Watch Your C-9 Lights!

[kcpalms]

Im sure most everyone knows this but I just wanted to warn anyone using C-9 lights for heat when overwintering about the possible fire hazards especially when also using dried leaves. Last winter (Dec. 28th, 2010) I had a fire that I luckily managed to put out but not before it had completely burned down two of my Windmills and damaged the side of my home as well. The fire was blamed on the C9's by the fire dept. although I think the extension cord could also been to blame. SO PLEASE BE CAREFUL!

SOMETHING AMAZING! These two windmill palms were completely defoliated and burned down to where only about a foot of trunk remained. Even the spear was burned off. This all happened on a night where we had a 20f degree low. Thinking the trees were lost for sure I just left them. There they were, completely burned down, soaked with water, left to freeze as we were already under a blanket of with snow with low temps in the teens with highs in the upper 20's (zone 6). They remained totally exposed like that for about 3 days until I finally got my head back together and decided to cover the two little guys with a 5 gallon bucket stuffed with leaves. I removed the buckets sometime in early March. Also worth mentioning we had a couple of nights in Feb. where lows hit around 10 below 0f!

THE GOOD NEWS FINALLY! These two little tough guys RECOVERED!! After being left for dead, frozen, with no supplied heat, no sunlight for over two months, through the dead of a zone 6 winter, they recovered! That tells me these trachys are indeed pretty hardy. The palms put out about 4 fronds each over this past growing season and are looking pretty darn good today. We have been mild so far this winter in KC but until temps get down somewhere near 10f or so I don't think Im gonna provide any extra heat while overwintering this year. We will see what happens. My needles and s. minors are on there own this year for sure (no added heat).

I will be adding some then and now pics.

Thanks for reading!

Tim - KC Palms!![/img]

[lucky1]

Tim,
Thanks for this warning.

I've always been leery of C-9s and leaves.

But what a testament to Trachies...you're right.
Fire, freezing, unprotected...and poof, back they come.

Look forward to the pics.

Thank God the fire didn't engulf more of the house.

Barb

[wheelman1976]

I had that same concern when I initially wrapped my windmill's trunks with c-9 strings, I kept wondering about the bark/fuzz getting too hot and combusting. I eventually went to hanging the lights around the trunk but not allowing the lights to touch the tree. So far I'm maintaining above freezing temps in my huts, then again I haven't had many nights where we went below freezing.

[lucky1]

initially wrapped my windmill's trunks with c-9 strings

never mind burning the fuzz...trees have died with lights leaning up against the trunk.

I forget which website had the photo years ago, but it was a beautiful palm with over 10 feet of clear trunk (not fuzzy like a Trachy).
Christmas lights were right up around the trunk to the crown.
It was reported that the tree was totally dead the next year.

C-9's get hot, just hold 'em in your hand for 10 minutes
Now imagine 24 hours a day, days on end, weeks on end during a typical cold winter.

Most folks here suspend lights near the spear, the safest thing.
I haven't seen one photo recently where C-9s are wrapped tight, touching the trunk.

Better safe than sorry.
Glad your enclosures are working well.
Your palms must look great in there!

Barb

And Tim, look forward to seeing those pics you promised!

[tlcivi]

They are tough, I'm beginning to think if the roots don't freeze they can with stand about anything, you read where other palms are cold hardy down to 15f or so, but a hard 25f frost will brown them deeply, a tracy won't care about that frost, its nice to know if you dont protect them from a few early frosts it does not matter. My pigmy didn't handle frost well at all.if a plant can't take frost then it is as cold hardy as my majesty palm. We know what happens there

[lucky1]

My pigmy didn't handle frost well at all.

They're not known for hardiness, especially with prolonged cold spells.

Plus I have enough trouble keeping mine looking good indoors.
Would never expose it to freezing temps.

Barb

[Tarkus]

Good to hear the happy ending on your story. So thanks for sharing and also for the warning. I too have recently started using the C9 lights to provide heat which so far seem to be doing a very good job of keeping my Trachy's warm. I will make a note to check the mounting and proximity to anything flammable when I get home tonight. I should have them fairly far from anything combustable but better to be safe.
As a side, yet related note, I used a laser thermometer to check the mulch outside of any protection in the shade the other day and the reading was 35F. I was getting a measurement on the inside mulch of my little Trachy hut of about 60F. I still do not have the top of the hut enclosed yet so this goes to show that these lights do put out some heat when somewhat enclosed. Of course there are many variables involved too.
Thanks again for sharing.

[lucky1]

What was the air temp when the outside mulch read 35F?

60F on the inside mulch. Great temp.

Have you got lights laying right on top of the mulch, or suspended near the ground?

Barb

[Tarkus]

I believe the air temp was roughly the same as the outside mulch temp in the mid 30's to about 40 but it's just a guess at this point. I tried to keep the lights from touching anything so although i do have a few ground mounted, they are facing upwards. I do tend to think that temp isn't the most accurate but you can definitely feel a difference between what's inside and what's out. I also think it helps that I've covered the bubble wrap on the outside with a BLACK plastic which should help to gain some additional heat throughout the day.

[sashaeffer]

Exact reason I built the frame of PVC around the windmill I'm over wintering that way, and then securing the lights to the PVC (using c-7 lights) attached to a thermocube. Only concentration of heat is underground with the heat tape around the rootball. I had read somewhere here it's important to be able to water your windmill when heating it this way so it doesn't dry out and die from thirst...which would make it crispy and more prone to igniting. I allowed for easy access to water it, only pouring water at the very base.

Sure glad though you were around to snuff out the fire!

[mnpalms]

Precisely why I string my C-9s around the inside of the enclosure completely off the ground and with the bulbs touching NOTHING. If the enclosure is sealed/insulated well there is no reason to have any heat so close to the palms or the ground inside. The ground/roots will not come even remotely close to freezing if it is kept above freezing inside an insulated palm enclosure. I learned a hard lesson one winter by thinking that heating the ground with rope lights (like heat tape- won't start a fire) was a good idea.... Awesome story about trachie's resilience though!

[TerdalFarm]

Thanks for the warning. W always cautioned me against using them. I did on my Chammie (photo below) last winter with no problems, but have generally been happy with the pipe heating tape as a safer alternative.

<table style="width:auto;"><tr><td><a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/x ... site"><img src="https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-Q_TM ... AG0550.jpg" height="400" width="239" /></a></td></tr><tr><td style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:11px; text-align:right">From <a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/terdalfarm ... ">February 2011</a></td></tr></table>

[hardyjim]

I've heard a few people talk about using leaves and lights......never understood that one.

Always use hardwood mulch-accomplishes(at least) 3 things........

1.Keeps ground covered/warmer.
2.Keeps lights off the ground so roots
don't get dried/fried;protects.
3.Allows soil to hold it's moisture values.

[lucky1]

I think there's a trade-off between clear plastic covers versus keeping palms dark inside a solid cover.
Solar advantage is lost with solid covers whether wood or tarps or whatever.

With a clear cover--or at least a partially clear plastic window on south/SW side--my "igloo" interior temps are often 25 degrees above outside air temp when sun is out.
In that case obviously the thermocube kicks out, saving some electricity.
But I think palms benefit from some light instead of being in the dark all winter.

With a clear cover/clear window, the mulch inside would warm up too...a good thing I think.

Yet others whose palms don't see daylight for 4 months have gorgeous looking palms come spring.

So maybe it's 50/50, one way isn't any more benefit than the other?

Barb

[Gonz]

That has also been on my mind.

I usual keep a cluster of about 10 C9s around the spear area. I turn them on and cover the crown to trap some heat. I have a wireless temp probe attached to the spear to monitor.
This year I am going to use a very large fleece blanket to cover the crown. I bought 4 90 x 90 inch fleece blankets and a friend sewed them together. It is huge.
I chose fleece because I wanted a more insulated material touching the fronds during severe cold.
So I have that,my large plankets,sqeeze clamps,burlap,fungicide, and bungees on standby.

For blizzards and heavy snow with very cold wind chill I have another string of C9s or C7s around the trunk that I turn on.

I think this is the 4th year since I planted this 500lb windmill. Now I am not protecting the tree as much unless the weather gets severe. So far it has been as low as 23F according to my temp sensors which I think is good. I want it to become more acclimated.
Ground temp probe 8 inches deep in soil and below 1ft of cypress mulch has been as low as 51.1F so far......currently 54.5F.
The weather has been very good so far so I haven't done anything.
A spear is opening.

My goal is to protect the fronds now to make the crown fuller each year and make sure there is some moisture in the soil.
And I want as much sun exposure as possible during winter.
It has to be established by now.

[lucky1]

Excellent, Gonz!

Any photos?

Barb

[Gonz]

Excellent, Gonz!

Any photos?

Barb

This was taken with my Iphone last June.
I had to trim off the damaged lower leaves. Which is reason behind getting the fleece blankets.
This is what it looked like after I was done trrimming.
It handled the +30 sunny straight days of 100-116 degree weather very well with very minor sun burn on lower fronds.
From 12 below to 116 degrees in a years time. No bad.

I'm still trying to figure this tree out.
This past summer I decided to go full organic with fertilizers and soil conditioning.
I want the soil to do all of the work from now on creating nutrients and retaining moisture during the hot summer.
I have also began filtering my outside water to remove as much Chlorine and now the Chloramine that is has been introduced to the water supply in Tulsa now. Its the best I can do.
Another thing I have began last winter was to carefully water the ground with lukewarm water during cold dry spells. Just around the outer area inside the drip line. Especially when the frond is still growing.


Notice to the right my other windmill died. I had to sacrifice the small one during that horrible blizzard to protect the large palm last winter.I could not cover it properly.

The two palms in the back patio area still alive.
Will post pictures next year.

[lucky1]

That is one gorgeous Trachy!!!
Too bad about the little guy.

From the number of fronds and their condition, I'd say your full organic/soil conditioning program is paying off.

I too noticed a real and very quick change in my Trachy's health last year when I emptied out a few gallons of slimy compost sludge that had been sitting in the compost container (below the spigot) for a couple of years. Applied it to the dripline around the palm and topped that off with grass clippings.
New petioles grew longer, thicker and the overall colour of the fronds has improved.

Mine is always protected in a wooden hut over winter, so I have no experience with watering with lukewarm water during cold dry weather.
And I agree with letting chlorine dissipate...buckets-full sit for a day or two before using, same for indoor plants.

Amazed that your palm liked that heat. Wow.
I ended up planting mine on east side of house as it hated the hot dry desert winds we get in summer.

Thanks for posting the pic.
Especially since it'll take a year for another photo?

Barb