Palms,etc out of their enclosures!

hardyjim · Post by **hardyjim** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 12:40 pm

Everything is uncovered,nice to walk out in the yard and see the family.

About 8 out of approx 22 palms have spear-pull,most of it caused by Neem oil in the spear area.

Heres a picture of one with what I call socket pull,this is definitely
a case where trunk cutting is needed-you can see the cut in the center
of the picture,piece on left was cut the other two pulled out.
This palm had no healthy leaves left.

I also believe it is lost as it is cut to close to the ground and the palms roots.

Some better pics-

Butia Eriospatha,this one should take off this year after a couple years of sulking...
it has never pulled-it was on the same circuit as the Washys but had less insulation.
It has seen 40-50 nights below freezing in it's enclosure..lowest was 21F

My poor little Thrithrinax!
It has been reduced to this after starting as a 10" plant with a couple mature fans.
What a fighter though,hasn't pulled in 2 winters-it most assuredly saw single digits
MANY times!
Still,it has a green spear poking up and is moving-these are tough!

2 ridger Princeps seedling from Garry 2 years ago(Tesan to the right)this one came up
in July 2010 -after overwintering in the ground last winter-took about a year to sprout.
Both of these were covered with only a thick styrofoam cooler...no heat!

I think this year I need to move the Tesan!

Needle,Waggie,Brazoria.

Bulgarian Trachy and S.Louisiana

This Waggie has been growing all winter.

East side of cactus bed-
Naini Tal,Fortunei,2 S.Louisiana and the Wag.

West side of cactus bed.
Needle,Naini Tal,S.Louisiana trunk cut Princeps(showing signs of growing) and Waggie.

Fortunei-with pull again!
No biggie,it still looks good and will recover quickly-better than last years trunk cutting dealeo!

Washys came out almost perfect!
Both grew about 3 "!!!!
Really excited to see these take off this year,they will not be as easy to cover!
These will still need a little protection occasionally...along with the T.ferns.

Some of the cactus and then the T.ferns!

Planted the Agave yesterday-this was already hard to dig up last year!

Cactus faired pretty well considering the G-house collapsed on them during a blizzard
that dropped 15+"...just some minor damage.

A.havardiana-A.parryi in the background-

Blue Parryi

Foggy frosty night coated the Needle and Fortunei...everything else for that matter!

T.ferns

Managed to save some live tissue on these-do these C.cooperi ever stop growing?

Squarossa

D.antarctica

C.cooperi-both of these have active croziers-they are already growing...
should be spectacular-they were putting out almost 4' fronds last year.

Last but not least-Black bamboo.

Thanks for looking.......

Cameron_z6a_N.S. · Post by **Cameron_z6a_N.S.** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 1:01 pm

Great pics as usual, Jim!

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 5:26 pm

Must feel good to pull all that protection off

for plants AND you.

Gotta say, impressed at this winter versus last year, despite the "socket pull".
GH collapse did no harm from this view.

Butia eriospatha is hardier than B. capitata?

Didyou sprout Princeps outdoors (a year to sprout?)
Yeah Tesan should be more than 4 inches from Princeps

Hadn't thought of using styro cooler, good idea.

Really impressed with Washies and Waggies

Man those Washies are huge!

IMHO your newly planted Agave..a bit too deep?

The that tree fern is already growing!
Bamboo looks right at home there.

What a great start for 2011.
Nicely done, Jim.

Barb

TerdalFarm · Post by **TerdalFarm** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 7:38 pm

Excellent!
Remind me in September to use more of your methods.
Any thoughts on Barb's question about Butia spp.?
Also, in the last needle and Trachy photos, I thought I saw white crystals. Is that potassium or epsom salts?
And enjoy the black bamboo. --Erik

Cameron_z6a_N.S. · Post by **Cameron_z6a_N.S.** » Sun Mar 13, 2011 1:08 am

From what I've read, B. eriospatha is a little bit hardier than B. capitata (a.k.a. odora), but B. capitata/odora can take a little more summer heat than B. eriospatha.

Paul Ont · Post by **Paul Ont** » Sun Mar 13, 2011 6:33 am

Cam- I heard that they are all actually the same species!

Jim- Your soil is thawed enough to plant!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

TerdalFarm · Post by **TerdalFarm** » Sun Mar 13, 2011 8:08 am

Paul--any chance we can get you to shift careers to palm molecular systematics? Butia, Sabal and Trachy all desperately need you!

Cam--I'd heard that, too, and my Summers are as brutal as winters. Plus the regular 'ol capitata/odorata (or whatever) are cheap down here.

Jim--forgot to mention (jealousy?) that the t-ferns are stunning.

Cameron_z6a_N.S. · Post by **Cameron_z6a_N.S.** » Sun Mar 13, 2011 9:26 am

Paul, where did you hear that?

I thought that they were 2 different species, with B. eriospatha being recognizable by its wooly infloresence spathe, and "spatha" being in its name as a result!

Wes North Van · Post by **Wes North Van** » Sun Mar 13, 2011 9:43 am

Cameron, you are correct.
They are in fact two different species.
Eriospatha has proven to be much hardier in this area than capitata.
It is better suited for wetter climates also.
They come different parts of South America.
The differences also include what you have already mentioned.

hardyjim · Post by **hardyjim** » Sun Mar 13, 2011 10:21 am

Barb

The Princeps did not germinate in 6 months inside,
I threw it in the ground in June 2009 to get it out of my sight!

It sprouted July 2010.

The sand will settle around the Agave.
The Washys were a big happy surprise,98% damage free!
Only discolored where they(1) touched the top of the enclosure.

Paul the soil is about 46F(4") right now and
should be approaching 60F by next weekend.

B.eriospatha and Yatay are supposedly the hardiest Butia
a Capitata isn't far behind...we are probably talking leaf hardiness
in regard to the differences between these 3.

Paul Ont · Post by **Paul Ont** » Sun Mar 13, 2011 12:15 pm

Nope- 100% same species. Which one of us is (has been) a taxonomist?
Cameron/Wes- I'm kidding. The definition of a species in plants, and palms in particular, is pretty loose though (my favourtite examples are in Trachycarpus; palms like 'wagnerianus' and 'nanital' and 'urkhensis')... And don't even get me started on palms that don't breed true from seed (e.g. 'Winsan') carrying the 'cultivar' name! I won't go off on that rant again right now, however.

Jim- What was your low temp and what was the longest freeze?

hardyjim · Post by **hardyjim** » Sun Mar 13, 2011 4:15 pm

Coldest this winter was -8F.

What do you mean "longest freeze"?

To early to tell if Winsan breeds true.

Paul Ont · Post by **Paul Ont** » Sun Mar 13, 2011 5:28 pm

I'm going to guess that no Trachy fortunei selection (or cultivar, or whatever people insist on calling it) breeds true when not crossed with another individual of the same 'cultivar'. You see this with waggies, they breed true when crossed to other waggies, but not when crossed with 'regular' fortunei (the inheritance of the dwarf characteristics is incomplete and you end up with a plant that is intermediate). I believe that Gary had commented on the % of 'Winsan' that came through with the 'true' characters (I assume that 'tesan' etc. would be similar). You also sometimes see the 'winsan' trait (i.e. round leaves) on 'regular' T. fortunei. It makes no sense to label something as a form when you only know 50% of the parentage!

That is off-topic, and my fault. I do that a lot. I'm going to stop now.

Back on topic:

Length of freeze refers to the longest amount of time, in hours, days, weeks, that your temperatures remained below freezing. For me it was essentially 5 weeks this winter. NOT good for the BLEs. I hope to get to the garden in 2 weeks time to have a look and get some pictures.

I'm still glad to see how well things have come through for you! -8f is not a bad winter at all for a zone 5b!

DesertZone · Post by **DesertZone** » Sun Mar 13, 2011 8:03 pm

Just amazing.

hardyjim · Post by **hardyjim** » Sun Mar 13, 2011 8:53 pm

Thanks guys.

Winsan probably is subject to whatever else is around it so not a stable trait.

Every Tesan I have seen(quite a few) has been very stout and robust,very
similar when small to what is referred to as Bulgarian Trachys.
In fact,Naini Tal,Bulgarian and Tesan look very similar when small,
almost like little Waggies!

My guess is this is a form of Fortunei from higher up in the mountains
or of colder origin,apparently these were bread for cold tolerance-
I am sure Garry could elaborate.

My Bulgarian and Naini Tal are tough as nails,esp considering there small size.
I hope Tesan is just as hardy,my first test in the poly-tunnel was not really fair,
to much moisture and to cold early in December last year-every palm in the
poly-tunnel pulled last winter,4 killed outright,4 sawed to the ground of which
2 recovered along with one outside the poly-tunnel.

On the bright side,the Princeps and Tesan seedlings survived with no heat,
only a styrofoam cooler-very impressive for any palms,let alone seedlings!

I moved the Tesan away from the Princeps today.

Okanagan desert-palms · Post by **Okanagan desert-palms** » Tue Mar 15, 2011 9:39 am

Jim glad to see your palms and plants doing so well. I`m especially impressed with the Washy`s. Gives me hope that the two 20 gal. W. filifera I`m planting have a chance.

John

JackLord · Post by **JackLord** » Tue Mar 15, 2011 12:09 pm

Never ceases to amaze me. Great job. Not so much gardening, more like terraforming.

hardyjim · Post by **hardyjim** » Thu Mar 17, 2011 7:41 am

Here are some pics from yesterday,3-16-11
I planted 4 palms.
Uncovered the Basjoo-over the weekend.
I also planted a few bags of Canna,Calla lilies,Hosta,Caladium and Dahlias.

Oh yea,I also planted my Rajapuri banana plant(sorry Paul) it was slowly rotting in
the basement,if needed it will be protected with one of the enclosures I
used for the Washys.

Rajapuri.
Soil temp is at 4"

The roller unrolled about a 1/2" in almost 70F temps.

The Basjoo are in better shape than last year-if they grow from any of these
stumps,they MAY just flower this year-last year they were 12' tall.

Brahea super-silver planted where my Korean Waggie was,my 3 trunk cut palms were just
to small to wait for,why not just put healthy ones in their place????

I did move/pot them so they have a shot!

Brahea

2 Takil-both are 2 ridgers one has already lost a couple leaves so,not the first 2 leaves on this one.

Last but not least the Princeps,it was planted were the other one was,that one still has some green
in the center-I potted it up so... we shall see.

TerdalFarm · Post by **TerdalFarm** » Thu Mar 17, 2011 7:48 am

Nice!
I have not planted anything yet--just doing bed clean-up. In the process I saw a few Canna spears starting to emerge.
That and the overnight low of 65 F (18 C) makes me think winter might just be coming to an end

--Erik

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Thu Mar 17, 2011 8:07 am

Jim,

Good you got that Rajapuri out of the basement.
Your soil temp of 59 is amazing for mid-March.

Basjoo, IF they grow from the stumps? Of course they will

Ooooh, a brahea super silver, one of the most beautiful palms in the world, (and Copernicia hospita

)
Tried those seeds a couple of years ago, none made it.
Will look forward to seeing yours develop the silver.

Great looking Princeps.

Attaboy, Jim!

hardyjim · Post by **hardyjim** » Thu Mar 17, 2011 2:28 pm

Thanks Barb

The reason I said that about the Basjoo is that,last year they did
not come back from the stumps but last year I cut the stumps taller
so as to leave room for them to come back,they also didn't rot as close to the ground.

In the future I will cut them a little over a foot off the ground and mulch a foot and a half.

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Thu Mar 17, 2011 2:40 pm

Glad I gave up bananas of any kind...especially if you're still learning, Banana Man.

Barb

hardyjim · Post by **hardyjim** » Thu Mar 17, 2011 5:02 pm

Well Barbito

You can grow all kinds of Cactus and Palms that love heat and dry air!

Thats pretty dang cool!

It will be fun to watch your Washys grow this year-
don't be afraid to water them
when the temps heat up this summer!

wxman · Post by **wxman** » Thu Mar 17, 2011 5:39 pm

Jim --

A banana in the ground in March?? You're brave. Mine won't go out for at least 30 days yet.

hardyjim · Post by **hardyjim** » Fri Mar 18, 2011 9:27 am

Yea,neither will mine!

This one will be covered with one of the left over covers
from the Washys-it just didn't look like it liked the basement anymore!

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Fri Mar 18, 2011 10:09 am

it was always this time of year my banana got really slimy and brown, despite being near a window.
Yech!
Glad it's gone.

Yours will do great with a Washy cover during cool nights.

Barb

hardyjim · Post by **hardyjim** » Fri Mar 18, 2011 12:46 pm

The other ones want out too!

I will take a look at the, ahem, 15 day forecast after this cold spell next week
and see if maybe by April 1 it's possible,what we need is temps mild enough to
warm the ground to around 60F and then warm enough day/night temps
all the way through the 15 day forecast-the Nanars can hanlde some freezing temps
but only if the ground is warm enough to stay supportive through it

PalmsNorth.com

Palms,etc out of their enclosures!

Palms,etc out of their enclosures!

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