Growing Greenhouse For Damaged Washy

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BILL MA
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Growing Greenhouse For Damaged Washy

Post by BILL MA » Tue Feb 23, 2010 10:23 am

Hey Everyone,
As some of you know while I was in Florida my GFI tripped leaving my washies exposed to 12 days with no heat, along with everything else. Of course this had to happen during the coldest night this winter 4f, followed by three more nights in the low to mid teens. So how many hours where they below freezing? My guess is at least 120 hours, not really a good thing for a washy. I believe they saw a low of 10-12f good thing they where dry or they would be dead for sure!
The two in the back yard actually handled the cold much better only burning about 40% or so.

So I decided to build them a greenhouse to get them pushing out leaves before they come out totally. I thinking I might leave the front one in there until the first of may since it's 100% defoliated, this way I'll get much better growth since April is wet and sometimes crappy here anyways. So here's what I got.

Pictures of the leaves before I chopped them off. They where a little green but totally crispy so I chopped them, Why Not the tree already sucked everything it could from them. If not they just would have pissed me off every time I looked at them, I left the stems which were still green. As you can see from the fourth picture the spear is green and healthy, I have the spear measured so I can monitor it's growth in the weeks to come.

Image
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After going through all this effort building this giant ugly box (had all the parts) I figured why not load it up with other stuff it is a pretty good green house.
So I put 5 sabal palmettos, 5 sabal minors, 1 phoenix Sylvester, and 3 agaves in there. Might as well get them geared up for summer too I'm sure they'll like it in there better then the basement greenhouse, which is working very well.

Image
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Here it is all closed up

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Since it's on the south side of my house and receives sun all day it gets really hot in there, by noon when it's 44f outside it was 102f so I need to add a exhaust fan which is no big deal I have all those parts too, I have it come on in the low 90's, that should get it growing. I did give it a health shot of dyna gro with about six gallons of water, It looked thirsty, the heat cables are keeping the ground warm enough to absorb it too. So there's my last crazy idea.

Any guesses on how many fronds it will make by may 1st?

Thanks for looking,
Bill



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Paul Ont
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Post by Paul Ont » Tue Feb 23, 2010 10:47 am

Bill- Number 1) It's not 100% defoliated, the petioles remained green! :D

I'll say 2 full leaves by May 1st, in addition to the stumpy one that is pushing out now!

Sort of an unfortunate position, this is why you should have planted filifera :twisted:!

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Corrosion
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Post by Corrosion » Tue Feb 23, 2010 11:00 am

Damn, that sucks :cry: I feel for the washy but it´s a big strong tree so hopefully it recovers well. BTW in what zone are you?
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hardyjim
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Post by hardyjim » Tue Feb 23, 2010 11:19 am

My guess is 72 fronds on your W.filiferas.... :shock:


That is some serious love my friend,great to see!

My guess is whether it puts out fronds or not it will be seriously moving in
that direction.Even if it's not visible,it will be ready to explode very shortly.
I know someone else who will be very interested if this works :wink:
Good luck,I am looking forward to pulling the tarp off mine when it unthaws :shock: !

My clear umbrella g-house creates the same effect even with a tarp over
it.
The temp outside is 30 and inside it's 70 8)


Very cool that your doing this,I hope it blasts the roof off!
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Post by lucky1 » Tue Feb 23, 2010 4:41 pm

Bill,
My two uncles would be buried beneath that beauty, adding yet more warmth... :lol:

No heat cables below the roots on this one (like in the back yard under the nanas?) sorry I don't remember.

It must have hurt to cut those fronds off, but they're greener than I would have guessed if they saw 4F.
Presume the 120 hours weren't continuous...daytime temps were above freezing, and then back down at night?
Or did it not get above freezing for 5 days? :?

All in all, Bill, I thought it'd look worse.
Wonder whether the crispy is now at its full extent, hopefully the current green isn't still fading to crispy.

I like what you've built...rather than protecting it with barely-above-freezing temps to encourage eventual hardiness, you're kicking it into early summer.
Good idea adding the other plants as the mass will help hold temps as well as benefitting them.

The exhaust fan is cut into the plywood near the top?

If the power goes out, throw a couple chickens in there.

You've made the best of a lousy situation, nicely done, Bill.
May 1st fronds? 2
Soon to be followed by 6.

Attaboy! :P
Barb
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BILL MA
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Post by BILL MA » Tue Feb 23, 2010 6:02 pm

Hey Paul,
There was a little more green on it too but it was in the way of the spear getting full sun, so off they came. I still think it has some filifera in it! We don't have to agree on this one it's ok. If it was pure robusta it would be DEAD!

Corrosion,
Yeah it does suck, that's what happens when you have two oblivious uncles renting from you. Thanks Guys for noticing :violent1:
I'm in zone 6b, but it's hardly ever goes below zero. Last time was 2003 I'm pretty sure at -2f. Lows the last three years have been 4f this year, 3.6f last year, and 5.6f the year before.

Thanks Jim! I hope you get to take a peek at your washy soon.

Barb,
There is a heat cable under that one too. I'm pretty sure it was below freezing for 5 day or real close at least (poor thing) I think it's done getting crispy too, and trust me if the power goes out and it's cold enough the generator is coming out. The fan isn't in yet but it will be up top, clouds this week so I'm not really worried about it. Summer gear it is, full speed ahead I'm going with 3-4 leaves excluding the stuppy one. The spear is already moving!

Thanks Guys,
Bill

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hardyjim
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Post by hardyjim » Tue Feb 23, 2010 9:23 pm

Also remember if you are giving them steroids it's better to admit it now,
rather then later!
Hard to believe the spear is moving!-
that's good news,no need to pull on it,it moves all by itself!

Guess what the temp is here



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lucky1
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Post by lucky1 » Tue Feb 23, 2010 10:21 pm

Glad you've got the heat cable on that one too..

stoooopid question, but when the GFI kicked out, that kicked off the heat cables too? or just lights?

Think you've turned adversity around full circle...good for you!

And Jim...those temps! :evil:

Barb
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BILL MA
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Post by BILL MA » Wed Feb 24, 2010 10:13 am

Ouch Jim,
Enough is Enough hasn't it been cold long enough at your place! Time for some forties and fifties for you. It has been absolutely pouring here from around 5pm last night, it will let up tonight and then start again tomorrow. Thank God it's not snow we would be buried 3" of rain that's just about 3 feet of snow! That was funny Jim, "no need to pull on it,it moves all by itself!"

Barb,
That one did have the heat cables on still since it was on a different circuit, oddly enough the ones out back where off and they look way better, they where protected better though.

Here's a couple pictures of what the worse of the two look like from out back. Not to bad considering what they went through, they must have had a lot more stored up heat to release.

Image
Image

Bill

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hardyjim
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Post by hardyjim » Wed Feb 24, 2010 12:29 pm

Pretty cool that your going to kick their asses into gear,that will be fun to watch!

The temp went down to -1(F) last night.
One more night of COLD,COLD tonight.
The temps MAY hit 40+ this weekend with some sun.
We may(if the 15 day verifies even close)we may be rid
of 90%+ of our snow before the end of the first week of March,
that would help to kick the highs up another 10f over what they would be with snow!
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Post by ScottyON » Wed Feb 24, 2010 4:29 pm

Hey Bill,

Im really sorry man! You put soooo much effort into your palms to have something happen like that! I'm thinking that they will totally rebound by late spring and they will look just like they did last summer, or better. Look on the bright side too. If they do continue to grow at the rate they are you may need to look at cutting off the fronds each winter do to the size. So this could be a good test to see how they do. Still though I'm sure your pissed and I can only emagine how I would feel if the same happened and mine are no where near the size of yours! Hey when I come visit this summer I'll bring you a 24 of real Canadian and we can sit under your palms and laugh about this!!

Take care buddy!

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Post by BILL MA » Wed Feb 24, 2010 5:09 pm

Sounds like a good plan Scott!
Will compare them to the crap molsens we have here.
I have a list of some cool places for you to check out to when you go to Florida. You
must be itching for the sun by now. My cousin pretty much runs one of the huge t-shirt
shops on Main St. I'll let him know your coming and he'll majorly hook you guys up if
you want beach stuff!

Glad to see your stuff holding in there strong, by the time you leave weather should be
pretty mild too.

Talk soon,
Bill

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Post by hardyjim » Thu Feb 25, 2010 9:43 am

How many spears has your Washy put out today?


I will get to see mine again this weekend and also take the tarp off! :wink: :wink: :wink: :D :D :D
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Post by lucky1 » Thu Feb 25, 2010 11:26 am

Charge your camera's batteries... 8)
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Post by BILL MA » Thu Feb 25, 2010 12:22 pm

Jim,
That will be a nice surprise, like opening presents on Christmas morning :D

Barb,
What stuff of yours crapped out?

Bill

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Post by lucky1 » Thu Feb 25, 2010 4:10 pm

Bill,
Just concerned about the stuff I planted out February 14th, and watered.
A few days later it got down to -6C 21F again for 4 days. :|
Oh well...

Barb
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Post by BILL MA » Thu Feb 25, 2010 10:18 pm

Barb,
I have a real easy solution for you. I know you have a extra thermocube lying around, get a roll of the stretchy seran wrap type stuff they sell at HD or Lowes along with some yard stakes, and make some three sided structures that you can place one set of c7 or c9 lights at the bottom of your new huts. It won't take much 6-7 lights in each hut, plus when the sun comes out it will heat things up nicely.

It will get you through for the remainder winter! Mild is Mild but still washies don't really like 45-50f for highs when the ground is cold. I'm going for underground heat cables for everything at my new house :P

The washy is still pushing up hard with clouds the last three days! Can't wait for sun again so it hits 100f in there. I think I'm going to pump up the night time temp to 52f from the 45f it's set at now. Why not! Maybe I can hit 5 fronds by May :D

Bill

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Post by hardyjim » Fri Feb 26, 2010 7:19 am

Bill you will definitely hit the ground running by spring!

Any other pics of your Sabals or what you have going in the basement?





:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :shock:
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Post by lucky1 » Fri Feb 26, 2010 8:03 am

I don't even want to uncover them to do that, Bill.
So will cross my fingers and call it winter research.
But thanks.

Yes, lets see some more pictures

And...new house! hope you're moving to acreage where you'll have room. :lol:

Barb
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underground heat cables

Post by TerdalFarm » Sat Feb 27, 2010 7:17 am

Bill,
can you explain how to use underground heat cables?
thanks, Erik

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Post by hardyjim » Sat Feb 27, 2010 12:24 pm

Barb
If you have some old covers/plastic/dirt,whatever,you can just bury them if you so get some bad cold.
The more mass/insulation the better,let some of that ground warmth work for you.
Don't ever trust warm winters!
Good luck
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Post by lucky1 » Sat Feb 27, 2010 2:45 pm

I uncovered them today to let the warm sun in.
Nainital looks pretty good considering what it's been through.

Will cover up again with buckets and a large tarp for overnight.

Image

NainiTal spear is firm, thankfully.

Image

The Med Fan Palm is probably still in shock from being planted a week ago. Thank goodness the filiferas can't talk!

Image

:lol:
Barb
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Post by lucky1 » Sat Feb 27, 2010 3:32 pm

Hey Erik...since your question about heat cables the other day, I thought of Bill's excellent pics of the cables he installed under his nanas.

But ya think I could find the #$%&* post?
We (mostly me!) sure do cross topics :lol: :lol: :lol:

Anyway (drumroll), here it is:

http://www.palmsnorth.com/forum/viewtop ... 60&start=0

You owe me two hours helping with my garden... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Barb
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Post by BILL MA » Sat Feb 27, 2010 5:11 pm

Barb,
Thanks for posting that link for Erik, I saw it this morning but didn't have time to post anything. I'm glad your newly planted stuff is doing ok, The little bit of heat from the Christmas lights will go along way too.

Erik,
If you do decide to use the heat cables don't let them touch or they'll burn out. With the washies I think I put the cables down 15- 18 inches if I can recall, the roots where enormous all bound up in 30 gallon cool rings. Then just plug em in, they shut off when the temp hits 78f.

Jim,
The Metal Halide lights in the grow room are ridiculously bright, it's kinda like being outside everything should enjoy it. I'll get some pictures up in the next couple of days.

Bill

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Post by TerdalFarm » Sat Feb 27, 2010 6:54 pm

Barb,
i'd love to spend two hours helping in your garden. The view is super, and Kia looks like a friendly dog.
Thanks for the effort. That was a great thread. Amazing results Bill got!
Bill,
around my palm trunks I just use the heat tape designed for keeping pipes from freezing. It comes on at ~38oF or so. Uses just 1 watt/foot.
Do you think those make sense for keeping the root zone above freezing, or not worth the trouble?
Have you been happy with the heating cables that activate at 78oF going all winter? I frankly hadn't even thought of using those for winter protection!
--Erik

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Post by BILL MA » Sun Feb 28, 2010 8:11 am

Erik,
I would bother if you where going to just use the other ones, I think they come on at 38-42f or something like that. I'm sure your ground stays that warm anyways most years. The kind I have are 24 feet and 86 watts about 3.5 watts a foot, the difference is the higher thermostat. Our weather is totally different though, I find them very helpful here for a spring and fall boost and keeping the roots alive in the winter. Your call I guess, your spring heats up way faster then here I'm just impatient by spring and need to do everything possible to get stuff going again.

Give it a try if you do a washy again what's the hurt you spend 28 bucks and don't use it? I think if you put it in you will use it though, Just my two cents :lol:

Bill

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Washy Update!!!

Post by BILL MA » Thu Mar 18, 2010 5:22 pm

Well it's been a little bit over three weeks since my washy was chopped and placed in it's cooker house.
Wow talk about results! Check out these pictures from today, 100-110f seems to be doing the trick nicely.

Image

Image

Check out how green and happy it is, there are more frond coming too :D :D :D

Hey Paul,
Look how dark the fronds are! Just like a pure Robusta :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

Bill

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Post by hardyjim » Thu Mar 18, 2010 7:53 pm

That's awesome Bill-
My Washy has the same exact kind of leaf coming out on it,half open,half way up-
a little kink as they say.
Those are some nice Robustas! :wink:



Barb-
Are you planting anything else or is it to late in the season there?



:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :twisted: :roll:
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Post by lucky1 » Fri Mar 19, 2010 12:24 pm

Holy cow, Bill, take a video of it and SEE it move 8)
Fabulous!
And that color!!!!!

Ya, Jim, good point...it's warming up, so the challenge is gone! :?
:lol: :lol:

Next plan is to take the outhouse down...where IS that carpenter????!!!!!
Barb
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Post by ScottyON » Fri Mar 19, 2010 5:56 pm

Hahahahaha!

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hardyjim
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Post by hardyjim » Fri Mar 19, 2010 6:08 pm

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
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BILL MA
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Post by BILL MA » Sat Mar 20, 2010 7:17 am

I'm building an even uglier one today for the back yard ones :D I'm putting a lot of plants from the basement in it.
The front one is totally stuffed full.

Bill

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Post by wxman » Sat Mar 20, 2010 8:38 pm

Bill,

How tall were those washingtonias when you planted them and how much did you pay for them in FL?

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BILL MA
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Post by BILL MA » Mon Mar 22, 2010 9:15 pm

Tim,
I think if you look back to all the questions you've asked on this forum you might have your answer :scratch: :scratch: :scratch:
YOUR WELCOME!!! for everyone on this forum and all the other forums that you asked questions and couldn't bother to post a simple
response :roll:

What wholesale nurseries would you like to go to :evil: :evil: :evil:

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