MN Palm's tropical garden, spring 2009

For cold hardy palm tree enthusiasts.

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mnpalms
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Location: MN, zone 4b/5a and Cape Coral FL (coastal), zone 10b

MN Palm's tropical garden, spring 2009

Post by mnpalms » Mon May 04, 2009 6:02 am

This forum seems similar to Garden web, and I notice some of the same people here , so I thought I would post here as well. I am relatively new to doing this extreme gardening/zone-pushing. I have successfully wintered a smaller (4-foot) trachy in ground here in MN once. I lost it to rot however. This spring I decided to totally re-configure my garden area where these plants are placed. I dug it up completely, got the soil/drainage right this time. This is a ground planter/garden near my pool, so it is obvious why I want that tropical look...

I have a large trachy, a larger needle palm, and musa basjoos planted at this time. Sadly, I had to dig up my 5-foot trachy in order to accomodate my even larger trachy. So I have 3 potted trachys here now, and a larger 7-footer in ground. The needle palm is about 3 feet tall, and is putting out suckers. The needle has been in ground for several weeks now, and it is really doing well. My large trachy was planted recently, just about a week ago. It does look pretty good and healthy, but I was wondering if anyone here has any suggestions as to anything else I can do in order to ensure it gets established well, and does not suffer transplant shock. I have never done one this big! I have used some Miracle Grow "fast start", but besides that, just some good watering. There was some Milorganite fertilizer mixed in with the soil also as I mixed it to back fill. Some of the older fronds look a little sad, not brown or anything, just kind of limp leaves here and there, and a little bit of whitish kind of waxy substance on some of them. I was assuming this was transplant/shipping shock. The tree traveled in a big box for 5 days to get to me, all 100 pounds of it. (mostly bare root, just some damp peat moss) I just don't want to be over-watering this tree, as I did lose one to rot in the past, following a winter. I do know recent transplants take a lot of water, but do any of the more experienced people here have any suggestions which could help me get this tree as healthy as possible over the summer, so it will winter well. I have my winter protection plan all figured out, that is no worry at this time. I just want to get this tree, my pride and joy, as healthy as possible!
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Paul Ont
Large Palm
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Location: zone 6a Downtown Toronto and zone 5a Kingston

Post by Paul Ont » Mon May 04, 2009 7:47 am

Wow! That is a large Trachy... And you're in zone 4 in Minnesota? Wow. You obvioulsy know what you're doing! I know that you'll need to push that Trachy to root well before winter hits, and, because Palms don't have a dormant period a palm without a large root system will be VERY susceptable to water problems in the winter. I suppose I don't need to tell you that:) If it were mine I'd give it a little extra protection for the first 3 winters in the form of a complete mini greenhouse with some serious insulation; I'd also be tempted to keep it above -5C even at night, but that's me!
If the soil is rich in orgnic matter and drainage is good then overwatering won't be an issue.
Good luck and keep us updated!

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Alchris
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Post by Alchris » Mon May 04, 2009 8:18 am

I wish you much better luck with yours than I had with mine.

The only advice that I can offer is ....... Drink Big Rock Grasshopper. :lol:

Allen
You don't have to be crazy to grow palms in Alberta..... But it helps

Cowtown Palm Society
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Location: Calgary, Alberta (zone 4a/4b)

Post by Cowtown Palm Society » Mon May 04, 2009 8:57 am

Very cool MNpalms! You give hope to those of us in zone 4 Alberta! Check out this link: scroll half way down and check out arctictropical's zone 4 Utah yard. Maybe the protection methods would be helpful.

http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/load ... 22623.html

P.S.

Agree with Allen, Big Rock's Grasshopper is mandatory!
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mnpalms
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Posts: 148
Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 4:17 pm
Location: MN, zone 4b/5a and Cape Coral FL (coastal), zone 10b

Post by mnpalms » Mon May 04, 2009 9:22 am

I decided to roll the dice with a big one after a lot of research, and some trial and error with a smaller (and cheaper) trachy. I've got a little more than $250 (delivered) into this big one, so I don't want to screw it up! My winter plan is similar to what the Gardenweb poster "arctictropical" does with all his large palms. His area is colder than mine, and he has some even less-hardy palms also, not just a big trachy.

Trying to keep this short, here is my winter plan in a nutshell. Basjoos will be cut back to a foot or two of stem, mulched heavily, stems wrapped in pipe insulation, covered with foam rosebush covers. Needle palm, mature and very cold hardy already, will get mulched, a small string of Xmas lights, and a 32-gallon plastic trash can over it. The big trachy, it will get the fronds tied up somewhat so it fits the narrower box, and the box is like this: 2x2x8 feet, in 2 sections that will clamp/seal together. Frame built from 2x2 pine (1.5x1.5 inch actual) to save weight. Foam board insulation, plastic wrapped. It will be light and easy to inatall and remove. I am still trying to decide between Xmas lights and/or CFL bulbs for a little heat. Arctictropical uses 3 CFL bulbs in his box (8-foot trachy) and it burns a total of 36 watts electricity. He leaves them on 24/7 from Halloween to early April. They not only put out enough heat, I understand the tree likes the 24/7 light, and gets acclimated to the sun real quick when uncovered in the spring. He has done this for years, and it is amazing to see how his trees look like the day they were covered, several months later when uncovered! he was my inspiration to finally pull the trigger and get a big one. I don't know if that guy posts over here, but if not, a search on his name for his posts over at Gardenweb would be worthwhile.

A note on my climate, and the goofy "zone 4 1/2" I claim. I am just southeast of the twin cities, MSP. We are not far from the river, and positioned at an altitude where we stay warmer than even the airport officially reports, season after season. I have not seen a reading lower than the high teens below zero (F) in my yard since we have owned the home (11 years). Also, the benefit of the pool. The planter is at the SW corner of the pool, at the deep end. We drain less than 2 feet of water in the fall, to seal the jets, and it is covered with a dark green mesh cover. The cover pulls in heat, and the pool does not freeze solid. To summarize, the roots of the trachy will never be more than 5 feet from open/unfrozen water, year-round. The space between the garden and the pool/water is thick concrete. The soil does not freeze deep in that area at all, and the other garden/planter has supported less-hardy roses for years without any cover or protection beyond maple leaves packed around.

So does anyone else here have any other tricks or suggestions on how to really get the roots going crazy on a trachy this size? I do feel like I know what I am doing, however I am always looking for more tricks/secrets from those who are the real veterans of this type of extreme gardening. Sorry for the long post!

mnpalms
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Posts: 148
Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 4:17 pm
Location: MN, zone 4b/5a and Cape Coral FL (coastal), zone 10b

Post by mnpalms » Mon May 04, 2009 9:25 am

Cowtown Palm Society wrote:Very cool MNpalms! You give hope to those of us in zone 4 Alberta! Check out this link: scroll half way down and check out arctictropical's zone 4 Utah yard. Maybe the protection methods would be helpful.

http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/load ... 22623.html

P.S.

Agree with Allen, Big Rock's Grasshopper is mandatory!
WOW! You posted as I was typing. Thanks for the info. Yep, that's the guy, Arctictropical. He is amazing.

Sorry if I appear ignorant, what is Big Rock Grashopper?

Also, I notice you mention "yuccas all year" in your signature. What do you grow? I am tempted to get a Yucca Rostrata, as the guy I bought that nice mature needle palm from has some nice ones. They are not cheap, but he has some discounts, and I have a coupon to use with him. I like the 4-footers, but I don't really want to have yet another bigger plant to worry about winterizing... His have nice trunks and really are beautiful.

Cowtown Palm Society
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Location: Calgary, Alberta (zone 4a/4b)

Post by Cowtown Palm Society » Mon May 04, 2009 2:39 pm

Hi mnpalms,

Yeah, I was thinking of that guy in Utah as soon as you mentioned zone 4 Minn. Crazy! He's been on this forum too.

I think you should definitely try a rostrata. I think you might be surprised with some minimal protection. It thrives in Denver. Although, your humidity might work against you somewhat. Good luck with all your plants! The trachys are great!

Long term I'm working on getting myself a suitable south exposure to try some of my collection in the ground. I have thriving Needle, Trachy Fortunei, Washy Robusta and Med. Fan palms. I have a 2/3 year old yucca rostrata. Also, just started some yucca seeds: brevifolia, elata and rigida.

Take Care!

P.S

Grasshopper is a great beer made in Calgary, Alberta.
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hardyjim
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Post by hardyjim » Mon May 04, 2009 9:23 pm

I don't think you need to worry to much about the roots getting going are doing anything special,if it is a healthy tree it will take care of that itself,you can't go wrong with arctics protection methods,just make sure you build you box wide enough to keep a buffer from the cold ground outside/underneath and mulch around the edges too. Great palm tree!
Last edited by hardyjim on Thu May 07, 2009 4:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Paul Ont
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Location: zone 6a Downtown Toronto and zone 5a Kingston

Post by Paul Ont » Tue May 05, 2009 3:46 am

FYI I had a rostara this past fall. I no longer have a rostrata. I'd say that -10 to -15f would be their limit, and only if dry. We hit -20f this past winter and mine looked good until spring when it yellowed and pulled a spear. I had it located on my south wall with moisture protection.
A safer bet is to try Yucca elata which should be hardy without problem for you... Unless you want to have more plants to protect, then rostrata (or even better, ridgida) would be the choice!

mnpalms
Seedling
Posts: 148
Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 4:17 pm
Location: MN, zone 4b/5a and Cape Coral FL (coastal), zone 10b

Post by mnpalms » Tue May 05, 2009 4:33 am

Thanks for the info and replies guys. I will definitely keep this forum posted as to my trees success here in MN.

Grashopper? Ok, I got it! Too bad, it is not available in our market at this time. We do get some decent beers from Canada, Kokanee being my favorite from there. I am actually in the liquor business myself! Around here, the hometown favorite is Summit, out of St. Paul. King of the craft/specialty segment around here. Me, I'm a meat and potatoes guy, I can't be in the garden without a Michelob Golden Draft Light in hand, or at least nearby. (#1 selling beer in MN, basically a premium version of Bud Light, A-B product)

PALMETTOMAN
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mn palms

Post by PALMETTOMAN » Thu May 07, 2009 8:53 pm

I would def. build a structure over that palm..Paul is correct...the roots need to get strong..try Carl Pool palm food..check out their sight MN...By the way, I'm in Z6 and i have overwintered a few trachy's...4-5 footers..all are looking ok after yr 2-3..

PalmettomanZ6-Ajax, On

lucky1
Arctic Palm Plantation
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Location: Vernon BC, Zone 5a or 5b (close to 6A!)

Post by lucky1 » Sat May 09, 2009 1:14 pm

Wow, great size and price on that windmill.
Your zone 4 and a half sounds like it's probably closer to 5 and a half or even 6.
My pool's water freezes solid (the 3 feet we leave in it anyway).

Thanks for the link to those great pictures. Outstanding!

I'd baby that palm all summer, with frequent diluted epsom salt soaks into the soil.
Roots roots roots, that's what you want.

My 32 year old windmill was finally planted out this year, mostly because folks here do such a good job of protecting theirs.
And also because I'm unable to find affordable planters big enough for it.
AND I felt sorry that I've "bound its feet" for so long.

Great info, thanks.
Barb
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