Peat Moss?

sashaeffer · Post by **sashaeffer** » Mon Oct 24, 2011 7:55 am

Seems like somewhere I read that Peat Moss is good to use as a mulch to help over winter palms that will be left in the ground, but after buying some and reading that it's used to add to soil to help retain moisture, I have second thoughts, as my goal is to keep the area dry.

I am using shredded and whole leaves, but wondering if I'm off base with the Peat Moss.

Scott/Omaha

Cameron_z6a_N.S. · Post by **Cameron_z6a_N.S.** » Mon Oct 24, 2011 9:42 am

Scott, go with the leaves. The peat moss retains moisture. You will want to keep the palms dry in the winter, and dry leaves will help you with this. What I do is put down a layer of mulch, followed by insulating dry leaves on the top.

Cameron.

sashaeffer · Post by **sashaeffer** » Mon Oct 24, 2011 9:55 am

Thank Cameron.

What do you use for "mulch" So far I've been getting both Cedar and plain wood shaving mulch to put down as a base with ground and unground up leaves over the top.

Cameron_z6a_N.S. · Post by **Cameron_z6a_N.S.** » Mon Oct 24, 2011 10:23 am

I can't remember exactly what kind it is. I think it's cedar. It's just the standard brown or red coloured stuff that you see everywhere.

mnpalms · Post by **mnpalms** » Mon Oct 24, 2011 4:39 pm

Scott- If your palm(s) will be enclosed, heated/kept above freezing within the enclosure, I wouldn't worry too much about the mulch. In my experience they do need some moisture during the winter. As long as they are above freezing you shouldn't have to worry about them being too moist and rotting. I actually learned (the hard way) that they should be watered at least a few times throughout the covered season. Having lived in Omaha years ago myself, I know your cold season is a good bit shorter than ours here in MN. You should have no problem getting them through the winter there.

Here's what I'd do: Cover them once temps will not climb above freezing in the daytime and/or night time lows are getting below the low 20s. Use a Thermocube with Xmas lights to keep them at or above 35f during the covered months. Make your enclosure easy to get into so you can water them about once a month throughout the covered season.

I use cedar mulch myself and I don't pile it on too thick, only an inch or two. The ground will not freeze in your enclosure if it is sealed up and maintained with a Thermocube and an appropriate number of Xmas lights or a similar heat source. Xmas lights seem to be the cheapest to run. I use less than 200 watts of power in mine (and only when Thermocube directs it) and my enclosure is pretty large in cubic-feet. I can honestly say I can't really see a difference in the electric bill. I also pack lawn bags filled with leaves around the outside of the enclosure which further ensures the ground will not freeze anywhere near the roots.

sashaeffer · Post by **sashaeffer** » Mon Oct 24, 2011 6:26 pm

I have two windmills that I'm going to try and over winter. Both already have heat tape buried around the root ball and a little ways up the stalk. "Big" one(about 3-4ft tall) will be in PVC framed, surrounded by plastic and bubble wrap with Christmas lights inside. It is on the South side of the Garage and I too have been collecting leaves in trash bags for both palms and Banana's I have. Other Windmill is a baby I planted in the ground in the spring and grew nicely. That one I have a plastic barrel around it, mulched and will wrap barrel with bubble wrap as well, and surround it also with bags of leaves, and add a plastic "roof" as well.

All my other windmills(5) are in pots(one in the ground) but will bring all of them in the garage for the winter while I experiment with the other two.

Sounds like I'm the right track though! Thanks for your help.

mnpalms · Post by **mnpalms** » Tue Oct 25, 2011 4:01 am

Scott-

A word of caution about the heat tape... I learned this the hard way, be very careful with heating the roots. There is such a thing as too much winter heat! If possible you should plug the heat tape into a Thermocube or something so it is not always on throughout the winter. A couple years ago I used rope lights to heat the ground under the mulch (on top of the dirt- not under ground) and it dried out the roots! Killed a 7 foot trachy! The thing literally died of dehydration from drying out the feeder roots. Make sure you can water your palms periodically throughout the winter. Jimhardy and I discussed my situation in detail and came to that conclusion. I guess we live and learn...

On a brighter note, I did over winter a 3' needle palm in ground without any heat that year. Just mulched heavily with leaves and covered with a large plastic garbage can. Here in MN, absolute low was -20f that year.

Sounds like you are on the right track but don't be tempted to over-protect as I was early on. $10-$15 wireless remote thermometers are a huge help as well. An absolute must in my book. When the time comes, about a month from now, I'll post pictures and details about my protection method for my 7' and 5.5' in-ground trachies as it is put in place. Good luck man!

sashaeffer · Post by **sashaeffer** » Tue Oct 25, 2011 4:14 am

GREAT IDEA on plugging in the heat tape to the thermocube. I will change that up tonight. Just the other day I noticed the heat tape was "ON" on the south facing Windmill. I thought was odd because it was only like in the 40's outside, and the ground itself should have been warm enough not to cause tape to come on.

I do have two wireless thermometers bought and ready to use in the enclosures. I'm getting the structures ready, but won't button them up for a while. I'll just keep eye on weather. Sometimes we have it pretty good here up into December a lot of the time.

I'll take and post pics as well as I progress this fall. Again thanks for the heads up on the heat tape.

Scott

sashaeffer · Post by **sashaeffer** » Tue Oct 25, 2011 4:17 am

MNPalms....

Did your heat tape have a built in thermostat? or was it always on when plugged in??

The heat tape I bought does, so it's not always "on" but I don't know the temperature range is compared to the thermocube.

hardyjim · Post by **hardyjim** » Tue Oct 25, 2011 6:45 am

Thermocubes have different on/off temp models available.

Remember that wherever you put you thermostat/thermocube
the temp in that area is going to cause your device to come on.

You also don't need 2 thermostats on your heat tape if it has one already........
if the thermostat is above ground on your heat tape the air temp will be what it
reacts too/not the ground temp.

sashaeffer · Post by **sashaeffer** » Tue Oct 25, 2011 6:53 am

The Thermocubes I bought come on at 35 off at 45.

I was just going to use them for the Christmas lights since the heat tape had built in thermostat.

Thermocube will be inside protection structure so keep just that area regulated, and I'll have the wireless thermometers to keep track of temps.

hardyjim · Post by **hardyjim** » Tue Oct 25, 2011 6:55 am

Depending on your plants/protection you will want to put
the Thermocube either near the coldest part of the enclosure
or right near the spear,away from the heat source so that it is consistent.

sashaeffer · Post by **sashaeffer** » Tue Oct 25, 2011 7:05 am

Yes, very good point to keep it away from a Christmas light bulb....it could maybe never to on!

Will keep that in mind when I button it up for the winter.

I hope this fall weather were having goes on a while. I know all my palms outside are LOVING this.

mnpalms · Post by **mnpalms** » Tue Oct 25, 2011 7:28 am

Scott-

If your heat tape already has a thermostat you should not need to plug it into the Thermocube as Jim noted. I would however try to find out what the on/off temp is for the heat tape so you are not keeping them too warm. Another thing to consider is that by keeping them (roots) warmer you will be promoting growth which would otherwise have slowed due to being colder. Consider if your enclosure(s) are accomodating to growth through the winter. Will you be tying up the fronds with a bungee cord, or letting them lay as they would while not enclosed? Spears pushing up and trying to open while tied up might not be comfortable for the tree and could result in deformed fronds. Just something to consider...

I place my Thermocube about 6" off the ground inside the enclosure between the palms, and away from any Xmas lights. I use white C-9 and C-7 Xmas lights and a 12.5 watt CFL bulb all connected to the Thermocube. The setup is capable of keeping it 55 or more degrees warmer than outside temp as needed. So if we had some record -30f cold my palms would still only see upper 20s at the coldest, which is no sweat to a trachy. I won't even cover my trachies until temps are dipping into the low 20s at night and/or daytime temps are not getting above freezing anymore. I figure I have at least until mid/late November. Last year we got a foot of heavy wet snow in mid November and my trachies took it like champs! Weighted them down pretty good but they bounced right back after being brushed off. I covered them for the winter almost a week later. They went to bed pretty moist but were pretty thirsty by the time I checked in on them around Xmas. I think a moderate watering about once a month during covered season is appropriate.

sashaeffer · Post by **sashaeffer** » Tue Oct 25, 2011 7:53 am

I will be tying up the fronds, but there is room to grow in height....part of the reason I went with PVC as enclosure method, I can add to it as I need. I did get the C7 lights, string of 25. I will monitor temps and adjust as necc.

Does anyone make a wireless probe to measure and track ground temps?? I would invest in one of those as well.