See 'em while they are still green

TerdalFarm · Post by **TerdalFarm** » Sun Jan 30, 2011 5:43 am

I have been following your weather woes up north all month, silently smug in the unaturally warm January we have had. The lowest was 8 oF, making it a zone 7b winter. It has been since 1996 that February had a lower low than did January, and only accuweather said 2011 would repeat that.

Yesterday was amazingly warm. High of 76 oF tied an old record high for Tulsa. I uncovered palms to let the trunks dry. Here are a few snapshots to show them looking pretty good. First is the Chammie (Chamaerops humilis) with heat tape on trunk (such as it is) and C9 lights on fronds. Second is the avatar Butia. Heat tape on trunk, but no lights (next year). That heat tape is shared with adjacent Waggies (Trachycarpus "wagnerianus"), seen next. Three Trachies (T. fortunei) with no electric heat are next and looking pretty good. Last is a needle palm looking super. (It is greener than this cell phone snap indicates.)

I'll spend the day getting ready for the forecast "groundhog day storm" with ice and snow Tuesday and cold thereafter. Lows to about 0 or 2 ( - 18 oc). Hopefully these will still be green a week from now....

<table style="width:auto;"><tr><td><a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/Bn ... site"><img src="http://lh6.ggpht.com/_r-MvN4jW1sE/TUQ8d ... AG0470.jpg" height="640" width="383" /></a></td></tr><tr><td style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:11px; text-align:right">From <a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/terdalfarm/ ... e">January 2011</a></td></tr></table>

<table style="width:auto;"><tr><td><a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/jL ... site"><img src="http://lh6.ggpht.com/_r-MvN4jW1sE/TUQ8_ ... AG0474.jpg" height="640" width="383" /></a></td></tr><tr><td style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:11px; text-align:right">From <a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/terdalfarm/ ... e">January 2011</a></td></tr></table>

<table style="width:auto;"><tr><td><a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/23 ... site"><img src="http://lh4.ggpht.com/_r-MvN4jW1sE/TUQ9I ... AG0475.jpg" height="640" width="383" /></a></td></tr><tr><td style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:11px; text-align:right">From <a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/terdalfarm/ ... e">January 2011</a></td></tr></table>

<table style="width:auto;"><tr><td><a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/VY ... site"><img src="http://lh6.ggpht.com/_r-MvN4jW1sE/TUQ8m ... AG0471.jpg" height="640" width="383" /></a></td></tr><tr><td style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:11px; text-align:right">From <a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/terdalfarm/ ... e">January 2011</a></td></tr></table>

<table style="width:auto;"><tr><td><a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/CZ ... site"><img src="http://lh5.ggpht.com/_r-MvN4jW1sE/TUQ8v ... AG0472.jpg" height="640" width="383" /></a></td></tr><tr><td style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:11px; text-align:right">From <a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/terdalfarm/ ... e">January 2011</a></td></tr></table>

<table style="width:auto;"><tr><td><a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/AC ... site"><img src="http://lh5.ggpht.com/_r-MvN4jW1sE/TUQ9S ... AG0476.jpg" height="640" width="383" /></a></td></tr><tr><td style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:11px; text-align:right">From <a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/terdalfarm/ ... e">January 2011</a></td></tr></table>

hardyjim · Post by **hardyjim** » Sun Jan 30, 2011 7:23 am

Looks good Erik.

Maybe a foot or more of snow here(we'll see)on Tuesday.

Possibly the coldest temps of the winter too with -10 to -12F
forecast,the good news is-not much longer to go!

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Sun Jan 30, 2011 7:57 am

Yes, look good and they do need to air out in those mild temps.
This la Nina winter has been good to you compared to last year.

I can't see the needle...

tropicman · Post by **tropicman** » Sun Jan 30, 2011 8:12 am

Looking real good!
Hopefully it won't be as cold as there predicting.
Did you water the roots any?

TerdalFarm · Post by **TerdalFarm** » Sun Jan 30, 2011 9:15 am

Don,
we have been amazing dry lately; big wildifres yesterday.
I watered the "palm house" palms yesterday as air temps got above 80 oF / 30 oC in there despite the roof being propped open

Palms in the hut are growing; Musa looks bad but would have made it if not for this week. Now I'm doubtful (roots are a sure thing, of course).

I did give a little water to surface roots of all in-ground palms. Soil temps are about 40 oF (5 oC) so I'd like to think the roots are OK going into this thing. I'll mulch the heck out of everything with hay this afternoon. Darn near free on the farm so all palms will all get 12" / 30 cm of hay.

Barb,
the last photo was of the largest needle palm. If it doesn't come through I'll re-post it.

Jim,
not sure how much snow here--the storm tracks keep changing. Might just be a lot of ice, but more likely snow. Cold won't be anywhere near as bad as you will get. I'd like to think all of our palms as are hardened off as they can get.

Everyone,
I did not show Sabal. The "Lou" looks good. Phew. The palmetto looks bad, but it did in late summer so I'm just hoping for a miracle. More interesting are the two S. mexicana. Serious frond damage from cold. They are alive. If they make it, they will get protection next winter like what Chammie got this year. Live and learn. I am now a C9/thermocube convert.

--Erik
P.S. for the record, I do not recommend Sabal mexicana for zone 7. Big surprise, huh?

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Sun Jan 30, 2011 11:53 am

That's the needle?

had no idea it was so large.
Lookin' good.

Barb

TerdalFarm · Post by **TerdalFarm** » Sun Jan 30, 2011 12:27 pm

Barb,
I like needle palms more and more each week lately!

That big one was US$40 last April. Already paid for itself as far as I'm concerned. --Erik

canadianplant · Post by **canadianplant** » Mon Jan 31, 2011 7:33 am

Looks good Eric!

The snow is missing me ( cold isnt

), but its a long skinny band with accumulations of 20 - 30 cm, from southern Iowa, Chigago, 90% of southern ontario upstate new york, to mass, and to souther Nova Scotia. They are also calling for freezing rain for a few days all up the eastern seaboard. Right now its over texas ( and Im assuming over you eric?) today. Its quite a decent sized storm....

The needle palm looks really good. I forgot, do you protect it at all?

All that straw, is going to eventualy make some really nice soil for your palms:D

Keep up the good work

TerdalFarm · Post by **TerdalFarm** » Mon Jan 31, 2011 8:37 am

Jesse,
thanks for the thoughts. No, still nice here but I'm getting nervous. It will be colder than I am used to, and if power goes out, my palm protection schemes go out too.

Needle palms do get protection down here. I swaddle them in hay, nestle water bottles by the trunks and through buckets or blankets over them. Just no electricity.
I assume you would do the full heated palm hut thing up there, right?
--Erik

igor.glukhovtsev · Post by **igor.glukhovtsev** » Mon Jan 31, 2011 8:57 am

Eric, don't you have a power generator, do you? Struggling for life here in Kazakhstan I've build underground water reservoir (5 cubic meters) and bought a power generator a couple of years ago. It helps a lot! Some days we have no hydro for 12 hours. You know it's so uncomfortable in winter time without hydro!

TerdalFarm · Post by **TerdalFarm** » Mon Jan 31, 2011 9:00 am

Igor,
no, but my son (age 11) was asking me just this morning why we don't have one.
If we get one in the future, it will be to keep water for the livestock, not for my palms. I know we only talk palms here, but I really worry about animals when it gets so cold. --Erik

TerdalFarm · Post by **TerdalFarm** » Mon Jan 31, 2011 9:00 am

Igor,
no, but my son (age 11) was asking me just this morning why we don't have one.
If we get one in the future, it will be to keep water for the livestock, not for my palms. I know we only talk palms here, but I really worry about animals when it gets so cold. --Erik

canadianplant · Post by **canadianplant** » Mon Jan 31, 2011 9:01 am

Oh yes.... LOL

Generaly speaking, for 80% of the winter I may not need heat. It doesnt stay -25C all winter here LOL ( thank god). I would more then likley need to heat it when its very young, and during the coldest parts of the winter ( usualy January has the coldest temps). I do want it to get exposed to cold temps, as I hope it will eventualy acclimitize somewhat to the winters here.

For example, I have a small Pseudosasa Japonica planted outside, buried under 2 feet of leaves, a big pot on top. All that is buried under 2 feet of snow. Pseudosasa is generaly said to be top killed at -15C or -17C ( depending on source). My Fargesia Scabrida, is generaly as hardy. If these guys come out green when I unbury them, I know my protection, will keep things around the -15C mark ( which isnt total death for some palms). The only thing that Ill have to worry about is the moisture ( which didnt at all effect my Fargesia Rufa last year). I know, palms and bamboo are different. Cold wet kills palms.

So Im going to have to do trial and error. I have around 100 trachy seeds of all sorts, same with Sabal Minor seeds ( and types). Im waiting on 50 Washy Filifera seeds too. I should get SOMETHING to work eventualy. I will end up buying a needle palm, rather then buying seeds. They take awhile to germinate, and apperantly longer still to grow.

The cold spell shouldnt last to long. You have some great protection so im assuming you shouldnt have any problems

Spring is almost here

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Mon Jan 31, 2011 9:22 am

Erik,
Naturally I'd make the same choices (animals vs. palms) if power blew.
With ice storms and the accompanying electrical lines down over the last few years, it's obviously prudent to have a generator in a rural area.
Hydro crews invariably look after population centers first.

With your warm winter weather, suddenly dropping temps, that must be so hard on plants.
Reminds me of what occurs in Calgary, albeit the other way around.
Their chinooks blow in when it's -15 C 5F.
The next day it can be +15C 59 F.

Igor,

underground water reservoir (5 cubic meters)

Good thinking! Great in summer too as water shed from roof can replenish supply.

Stay warm!

TerdalFarm · Post by **TerdalFarm** » Mon Jan 31, 2011 1:27 pm

As a water reservoir, we have the pool. As warm as this winter has been, it has not frozen yet under its insulated cover!
Anyway, I am about to leave work to get more covers for palms. The 4 mil plastic I used in December has frayed and I want stronger stuff as we will get winds with the ice and snow tonight.

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Mon Jan 31, 2011 1:43 pm

water reservoir, we have the pool

Tell me you don't use chlorinated pool water to irrigate...please!
I think Igor's reference was to irrigation supply?

Barb

TerdalFarm · Post by **TerdalFarm** » Mon Jan 31, 2011 5:49 pm

No--I don't water plants out of the pool. Remember, right now I am more worried about the animals in an emergency.
I did run around in the dark like a headless chicken having my boy help me add layers to the palms. It is windy but the precip. hasn't started yet.

igor.glukhovtsev · Post by **igor.glukhovtsev** » Mon Jan 31, 2011 7:24 pm

lucky1 wrote:
water reservoir, we have the pool
Tell me you don't use chlorinated pool water to irrigate...please!
I think Igor's reference was to irrigation supply?

Barb

Right my previous reference was regarding a tap water supply... Me and my two neighbours built a reservoir meaning a irregularities of drinking water supplying in my area. For irrigation purposes we use natural mountain river water that start to be supplied in April. It's clean but badly cold throughout the whole irrigation season.

canadianplant · Post by **canadianplant** » Tue Feb 01, 2011 6:11 am

Hey eric,

Howd it go last night??

TerdalFarm · Post by **TerdalFarm** » Tue Feb 01, 2011 6:18 am

I'll go out and take photos soon. We got (are getting) snow vs. ice which is good. Power still on!

Windy in this "thundersnow" blizzard but palm huts still standing. We'll get serious cold, though, which may kill even the needle palms.

--Erik
Edit: weather sticker has the right temp. but it is not freezing fog--it is blizzard.

DesertZone · Post by **DesertZone** » Tue Feb 01, 2011 6:30 am

TerdalFarm wrote:I'll go out and take photos soon. We got (are getting) snow vs. ice which is good. Power still on!
Windy in this "thundersnow" blizzard but palm huts still standing. We'll get serious cold, though, which may kill even the needle palms.

--Erik
Edit: weather sticker has the right temp. but it is not freezing fog--it is blizzard.

Good to know the power is on, but that sucks it is getting so cold. My place in Texas is going to get colder than it is here in Idaho. They are looking at a low of -15C.

I feel your pain Erik.

canadianplant · Post by **canadianplant** » Tue Feb 01, 2011 6:31 am

The weather network here said that OK city, will get more snow then any Canadian city ( 20-30-40cm forcasted for southern ontario, southern quebec and the maritimes).....

The temp I see is -10C for you, which isnt to bad at all, especialy when you have power till... On Wednesday night, they are calling for -25C as a low for you ( welcome to my world

). The best part seems to be that, like you say, its snow for you (insulation for those cold temps youll be having!!)

Heres the link to the weather network im referencing too

http://www.theweathernetwork.com/weather/usok0531

Heres the 14 day trend

http://www.theweathernetwork.com/fourte ... k_lt_14day

I Wish you the best of luck man.

TerdalFarm · Post by **TerdalFarm** » Tue Feb 01, 2011 7:13 am

Jesse,
thanks for the research. I have never experienced temps lower than -20 oC so this will be a first for me.
My palm protection is not designed for temps like that.

Here is a video I just took. Only 20 seconds as I got too cold.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FO4mXkoWNow

Well, off to find mittens and start hauling buckets of warm tap water to 100 animals. So glad the power is still on for their sake.
--Erik

canadianplant · Post by **canadianplant** » Tue Feb 01, 2011 7:27 am

Wow, you already have a decent amount of snow. You can hear the wind too

The palms under the plastic will keep the wind off of them ( thats lots of the cold). You have enough heat tape, and lights to heat up a house LOL. I hope for the best..

I hope your animals are ok. We have cows, horses, and pigs and all that up here ( half of the citys population is semi rural, or rural), and even with power outages, in the worst weather weve had, ive never read a story about people loosing their animals). Mabey its a good time to think about putting a woodstove on the barn? ( Hell why not run a pipe around your palms!!!!!!)

The snow should stop soon ( be glad you have some snow as insulation), and only 2 days of really cold ( for you). I wish you all the luck, keep us posted

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Tue Feb 01, 2011 2:12 pm

Thanks for the video, Erik.
BTW, it's not a blizzard until you CAN'T see the palm hut.

Good luck with the animals.
Barb

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Tue Feb 01, 2011 2:32 pm

Updated map of warnings...sheesh, it'd be easier to say where there are NO warnings.

http://maps.wunderground.com/data/sever ... tefarm.gif

Stay safe folks.

TerdalFarm · Post by **TerdalFarm** » Tue Feb 01, 2011 10:12 pm

I thought I'd share a few cell phone snapshots from the end of the day.
It was quite a day: 2nd ever blizzard in Tulsa history; highest single snow fall ever (14"). We set a February monthly total record 12 hours in the month. Not so cold yet, but if we get to -23 oC as forecast this week we will get close to records.
None of this seems unusual to those of you who live up north (I loved Jesse's quote: "welcome to my world!") but not what we are used to here at 35 oN latitude.

I'll just throw a few snapshots up. Ask if you have questions, or just be glad you don't live so far north.

<table style="width:auto;"><tr><td><a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/JM ... site"><img src="http://lh5.ggpht.com/_r-MvN4jW1sE/TUiYY ... AG0502.jpg" height="383" width="640" /></a></td></tr><tr><td style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:11px; text-align:right">From <a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/terdalfarm/ ... ">February 2011</a></td></tr></table>

<table style="width:auto;"><tr><td><a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/WZ ... site"><img src="http://lh5.ggpht.com/_r-MvN4jW1sE/TUiYv ... AG0506.jpg" height="383" width="640" /></a></td></tr><tr><td style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:11px; text-align:right">From <a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/terdalfarm/ ... ">February 2011</a></td></tr></table>

<table style="width:auto;"><tr><td><a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/db ... site"><img src="http://lh6.ggpht.com/_r-MvN4jW1sE/TUiZN ... AG0511.jpg" height="383" width="640" /></a></td></tr><tr><td style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:11px; text-align:right">From <a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/terdalfarm/ ... ">February 2011</a></td></tr></table>

<table style="width:auto;"><tr><td><a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/qm ... site"><img src="http://lh4.ggpht.com/_r-MvN4jW1sE/TUiZI ... AG0510.jpg" height="400" width="239" /></a></td></tr><tr><td style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:11px; text-align:right">From <a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/terdalfarm/ ... ">February 2011</a></td></tr></table>

<table style="width:auto;"><tr><td><a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/Hf ... site"><img src="http://lh5.ggpht.com/_r-MvN4jW1sE/TUiZd ... AG0514.jpg" height="400" width="239" /></a></td></tr><tr><td style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:11px; text-align:right">From <a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/terdalfarm/ ... ">February 2011</a></td></tr></table>

<table style="width:auto;"><tr><td><a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/q1 ... site"><img src="http://lh4.ggpht.com/_r-MvN4jW1sE/TUjls ... AG0521.jpg" height="640" width="383" /></a></td></tr><tr><td style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:11px; text-align:right">From <a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/terdalfarm/ ... ">February 2011</a></td></tr></table>

canadianplant · Post by **canadianplant** » Wed Feb 02, 2011 6:02 am

Wow eric... thats not the scene I picture, when i think of OK. Just think, cities like NYC, Boston, and the entire east coast of Canada have been getting hit like that since september!! Glad to see that the power was still running.

That leaf damage on that Chameadorea is from the other week is it not??

Its hard to read the thermometer in that pic. Does that say -5C?? That shouldnt be a problem for the palms in there (hopefully the temp didnt drop to quick)

Your property looks good. ITs nice to have a change of scenery. In calgary, its usualy so dry, what little snow falls, is welcomed because of how brown the city is during the winter.

I just checked the weather network. They changed the low from -25C, to -15C. Definelty workable!!!!

Howd the animals fair??[/i]

lucky1 · Post by **lucky1** » Wed Feb 02, 2011 11:14 am

Glad it's done and gone...with apparently little effect.
Good job!

TerdalFarm · Post by **TerdalFarm** » Wed Feb 02, 2011 1:28 pm

Jesse,
forecast is still for -22 or -23 oC oC but it depends on the winds.
Soil temps at 10 cm are still above freezing (per the state weather website: my soil thermometer is buried!) so I have some hopes for re-growth from roots using Jim's methods

Barb,
Palm hut is hanging in there. I'm cautiously optimistic for all the palms in there. The only structural problem was the blanket covered by a plastic tarp over the new Sabal "Louisiana" which the winds partially blew away. I have hay piled up over the spear and heat tape on that so I am optimistic for survival even if the fronds die. Bryan at Amazing Gardens has promised updates on his Lou.s after the storm lets up.

We won't get enough heat to melt enough snow for me to lift covers and peek inside for quite a while; more snow coming next week. So, I guess I'll have to be patient and continue my focus on the animals. No deaths yet.

--Erik

BILL MA · Post by **BILL MA** » Wed Feb 02, 2011 7:54 pm

Glad to see you made it through OK Erik, I was worried about you out there

Two blizzards in two years, geez, hopefully this won't keep up. Your palms are looking really good too, I'm glad your using c9 bulbs now

Bill

TerdalFarm · Post by **TerdalFarm** » Thu Feb 03, 2011 6:55 am

Jesse,
you weren't far off--for me. On the last hot water run to horses at 11 pm I noticed clouds. Yeah!
Not everywhere but enough. So while Tulsa got to -6 oF, and the official Bixby site got to -1 oF, the nearby personal weather station only got to 1 oF. So, can I claim to still be zone 7?

The palm hut is 20 oF which is pretty darn good.
--Erik

canadianplant · Post by **canadianplant** » Thu Feb 03, 2011 7:00 am

Awsome eric!!!! Thats good news.

Since your out of town I wouldve figured you would be colder.

Heads up though, my weather network says -25c tonight for you, and clear. Thats when the real cold hits, because there arent any clouds to hold the heat in.

Bill... how much snow did you end up getting? I seen 2 feet forcasted for your area

BILL MA · Post by **BILL MA** » Thu Feb 03, 2011 8:08 am

Jesse,

We didn't get hit as bad as the middle of the state into New Hampshire. I think we got about 8-11" or so between the two storms, hard to tell since it rained most of the day yesterday. Another one Saturday, wonderful. It might be rain again, we'll see.

Any way you slice it there is a major ton of snow here, more then I've ever seen in Massachusetts. The plow banks are enormous!

Bill

canadianplant · Post by **canadianplant** » Thu Feb 03, 2011 3:17 pm

Even more then "snowmaggeddon" last year??

BILL MA · Post by **BILL MA** » Fri Feb 04, 2011 6:05 am

Yep, Since last year we only got 24" of snow for the entire winter. South of here is where they got bombed with snow from DC to NJ. I took some pictures with my phone yesterday, I'll try to get a few of them posted.

Bill

hardyjim · Post by **hardyjim** » Fri Feb 04, 2011 9:29 am

Looks about like it does here Erik

wxman · Post by **wxman** » Sat Feb 05, 2011 5:36 pm

Hopefully things are on the upswing now. I'm done with winter. Keep you palms warm!

TerdalFarm · Post by **TerdalFarm** » Sun Feb 06, 2011 5:08 am

Thanks, everyone.
Local TV meteorologists say just one more week of cold and snow. I plan to unwrap things a week from today.
So, far, all I can see is the Sabal "Louisiana" as the roof partially came off in the blizzard. Looks ok, and the 2 litre water bottles in there are water not ice to the little heat tape in there must be doing their job.
Bill,
I am only using the C9 lights on my Chammie. It was a cheap Home Depot purchase four years ago so I feel free to use it for experiments.

In hindsight, I wish I was also using the lights on the Sabal mexicana, which only have the pipe heating cable. --Erik

PalmsNorth.com

See 'em while they are still green

See 'em while they are still green

Sunset photos

Still zone 7!

Snow

Who is online