2005-2006 winter report

[DesertZone]

Ok... let's hear about it, if you have something that did not live through the winter post it here.

I have a few things that are not looking to good but is to soon to tell.

[DesertZone]

Ok...now that it has warmed up a bit, I am starting to see the dead.

Agave americana ssp. protoamericana- showed sighns of burn early, and was covered.

Echinocereus trigloghidiatus "white sands strain"- 90% burned, my largest one, all others ok! Never had problem in the past and with colder weather.

Fero cactus the big one- yellow and most likely dead, covered but not soon enough Smaller one, covered and looks ok.

[banana joe]

for a small 4" inch E.microtheca. I had my doubts that species of euc. would survive. They are a waste of time here. Lwest temp. here was -1.9 C. No damage on any plant. Even the Washingtonias look happy. Rhapis excelsa came through another winter. I planted it 4-5 years ago. Joe

[desertdave]

Has it been as wet in the Magic Valley as it has been here in the Boise area? That may be one of the problems that esp. your Echinocereus had, the intensely wet weather followed by cold weather. Here we had about 2 1/2" of rain in Nov. and early Dec., followed by the early December inversion (I had as low as 8 F that week). Then we had about 6 1/2" or 7" of rain (depending on the part of town, those of us out of the rain shadow of the Owyhee Mts. got more; the airport got less, about 5"), followed by the recent Arctic spell (luckily we only got to about 13 F here). Normal for the entire rainy season (Oct. through May) is usually 9 or 10". We had that in the span of about three months, with three more to go! One of these days I will have to go to Nampa and see if the Trachy's are doing ok still, but most of the other subtropical/warm desert stuff in town appears to be doing fine.

I guess that is one of the things though. This winter has been equal to about a zone 7b for us (the coldest prolly since about 1998-1999, when we got to 0), but that is rarely a problem for most Boise gardeners. Many I am sure still remember (or have heard the legends of) December 1990 and are hesitant to plant anything more tender than zone 5 or even zone 4. For every bamboo, pampas grass or magnolia I see planted in town I still see at least one blue spruce AND two Austrian pines planted.

Anyway, what's with Austrian pine? They are not very drought or heat tolerant, and seem to be very susceptible to bugs, but people still plant them here. Either water the darn things, or instead they could plant the similar, Western native Ponderosa pine, which is much more drought and bug tolerant and seems to actually thrive somewhat in the heat. I also think the Ponderosa looks better to boot! Better yet, I say try a Trachy...

[desertdave]

It is prolly early so far but I have a few things that don't look too great right now.

Two of my three Italian cypresses look kinda bluish-purple. My cypresses are a blue (glauca) form, so that may be normal; they do look diffrerent from what they did last year and from the other one. I will keep an eye on them. The other has been a favorite target of squirrel attacks and has been partially uprooted twice (thankfully during warmer spells though). It will probably make it.
My three Q. chrysolepis are a mixed bag. One looks awesome right now and ready to go once it gets warm. Another looks kinda yellow right now; I don't think it is cold related but it could be water related; it sits right underneath an eave right now in a pot and has caught a lot more than the 9 or 10 inches of rainfall that everything else has caught this winter. It could snap out of it, esp. if I move it. The other one, the tallest one I had, was killed the other day in a squirrel attack, but it was starting to turn a bit grayish-brown anyway; it may have taken the cold on the chin a bit more. I guess we will never know though since the squirrel cut it down.
Some more tender Rhododendrons I had seemed to freeze this winter; I had planted some zone 7 rhody's that did not get terribly well established anyway. Needless to say, my zone 4-5 hardy rhody's are fine.

p.s. To people's knowledge, do live oaks resprout from the roots/trunk?

[banana joe]

I planted a specimen as a 1 gallon 10 years ago and it has grown into a fairly large tree. It must love our climate because it beautiful and flawless. I have it growing in very poor rocky soil. I have several other species of pine on my property as well. On our island we have native Shore Pine and White Pine up on the mountain tops. Cheers, Joe

[desertdave]

I would suspect they would do better closer to the coast b/c of the cooler summers. They are native to the higher elevations of central Europe, where summers are cooler than many parts of North America. Here in Boise they seem to suffer because summer highs are often above 35 C (95 F); many summers have a few days up to 40 C or higher. They take the winters fine here though, as most pines do... I am not normally a nativist but usually, from my observation, most pines seem to do better in their native region or a climate similar to it.

[DesertZone]

Austrian pines are a nice looking tree, but I would never plant one. There are so many planted in the landscapes, and in North America there are so many other nice pine and fir trees that would do a yard good. And nature does better with the other native pines. They are nice and to each their own. but I would take a Ponderosa pine over a Austrian pine any day.

If I was in Europe I would rather plant the Austrian Pine.

[DesertZone]

I think the rain and snow was not the problem here, I think the problem was that it was so warm and in no time it was below 0F.
I had petunias still flowering just short of the -0F weather. On secound thought it could have been a combonation of the warm and the rain and then the cold. I bet the plant cells were taking in water instead of releasing it for winter preperation and so the damage when the cold came unexpected.

[banana joe]

I also grow that one as well. You should try Italian Cypress. They are quite popular here and I suspect they would like your hot dry Summers. Cheers, Joe

[Ianmc]

Always interesting to read about winter losses,however equally interesting to read about plants that looked like they made it through the winter but succumbed in spring.That really brasses me off.
Any fern growers in PNW etc please leave fronds on even if they do look pretty tatty best protection for late frosts.

[DesertZone]

I hope to find a small one to try in this area. It will be my next winter kill I think they might do better then what I have read?

[yuccaman]

My yuccas survived and my hardy agaves very green with no damage. I did lose a joshua tree because it was too old for the cold and not hardy any more and the cold killed it but my other joshua tree survived well. But we are get another big snowstorm with more freezing rain. Its been a bad year because of to many storms.

[DesertZone]

How cold did it get there yuccaman?

[yuccaman]

The temps were around -25C when it killed it. If it were yound It would have not killed it.

[DesertZone]

That is so weird, because they only seem to do better with age here I have seen small ones die from cold but larger ones do much better.
I have seen bigger ones die because they become so good at taking water in that they rot in the winter. This is becuase of bad drainage, they have a root system that spreads and is very good at taking water in. When they are young they can handle more water, and need more water.
Normaly Yucca Brevifolia should have no problem if a larger specimen in -23C I have seen one for many years in Pocatello Idaho take down to -20F maybe even -25F back in the 1980's. But it was a larger one and had excellent drainage.
There is also some very large ones in Saltlake City Utah that have seen close to -20F in the eighties that are still there. I think it has to do with the wet more than cold?

[banana joe]

I have a couple of tree ferns in my garden. My largest specimen I planted in 1994 has over 4'ft of thick trunk and 8'ft fronds. It is rare that they ever turn brown from cold. I have only seen that happen once since I planted it. They are as lush as can be right now and by late March 2 dozen new ones will start to unfurl. I have smaller tree fern as well and it is also nice and green. In colder climates it would be good to protect the fronds if you want to keep them green overwinter. Cheers, Joe

[banana joe]

I have a couple of tree ferns in my garden. My largest specimen I planted in 1994 has over 4'ft of thick trunk and 8'ft fronds. It is rare that they ever turn brown from cold. I have only seen that happen once since I planted it. They are as lush as can be right now and by late March 2 dozen new ones will start to unfurl. I have smaller tree fern as well and it is also nice and green. In colder climates it would be good to protect the fronds if you want to keep them green overwinter. Cheers, Joe

[yuccaman]

Your right it is a wet cold that killed it. It was covered in ice.

[DesertZone]

Joe do you have pics of your tree ferns

[Steve]

Hey Desertdave,

I've never heard of Live Oaks sprouting up from the roots after a killer winter, but it might be possible. What they do want is a mild, moist winter with a hot, dry summer. The Ponderosa Pine is, of course, a beautiful tree with many benefits. It does, however, drip sap. A killer sap that will kill anything underneath it for obvious reasons. They are a beautiful tree though. As for "squirrel attacks"-- I don't know what that is. Are you saying that you have killer squirrels in you area? What do they do?

[desertdave]

Yah I have killer squirrels. They used to dig up my oaks to pluck the acorns off of them, but once I started removing the spent acorn when the seedling had grown a bit, now they seem to attack everything I grow from seed, often by cutting them down. Maybe they snap them by trying to climb them? Dunno, don't care... I will buy replacements. I may booby trap my seedling beds as well, with rat traps...

The squirrel is what killed that oak tree; it had apparently survived the two cold blasts. Did not quite look as robust as the other one I have, but still pretty sturdy. I have read somewhere that Q. chrysolepis is anecdotally hardy to zone 5; if that is so, a Dec. 1990-style Arctic blast might get them, but that is one reason I am trying to grow them, to see if they will grow here or not.

[DesertZone]

chalk a couple more up for the dead

1-Echinocereus engelmannii

2-Echinocereus Coccineus, not all of them but some I had for a few years now They were looking good also