HUGE findings for North Palm growers

[Kansas]

Well at least I personally think it is...
I have done it myself and can now positivly state that Palms CAN make it in Kansas or in other Zone 5 WITH OUT PROTECTION!

Last year I planted a Sabal Minor that I got from "Desert Zone", and I also planted a Minor that I got from "Laaz", both from here on PalmsNorth.
I planted them on the South side of my whiteish/greyish home, about 2-3' from the wall. I did NOTHING else for them all winter, just hopeing that the snow would insulate them enough. When I say I did nothing, I mean NOTHING as far as protection. Not even a trash can on the really cold days.
There were days when the temps never got above the teens for two to three days. We also had many days with below zero wind chills.
These are still alive, no matter how they look, because I have seen visable growth from both.


From Laaz..


From Desert Zone

[lucky1]

Wes, in Zone 5 ????
So close to the house they'd be drier, too, which is good.
Spears look robust and ready.

Great findings, especially for plants so young.
Palms are generally hardier as they mature, so this is certainly an important finding.

Nice to know that taking a chance sometimes pays off !
Barb

[oppalm]

slow down there big fella. don't be tellin' everybody about the great state of Kansas as a palm growing mecca. Before you know it we'll have everbody wantin' to move here and it will really mess up our climate. SHHHHHHHHHH. quiet.

I have 2 Trachy Fortuneis that have survived 2 years in ground with minimal protection. i.e. no heat or warmth added just a plastic dome over the top to keep the snow and ice out. They are both a little slow to recover this spring which may prove to be the beginning of the end. we'll see.

[Alchris]

Thank you Wes. This is good news.

I had hoped that I could put Sabal minors on the south side of my stucco house and overwinter them with only a layer of styrofoam on the front and roof and and plastic on the sides to provide some light.

If I can find a Canadian source of 5 gal Sabal minors, I am going to give it a try.

Allen

[lucky1]

Kent, ha ha, can you just imagine the coffee klatches and plant/seed swaps if we lived in the same community?
At least Canada Customs would no longer be in the equation

Unless the spear is pulling on your Trachies, they should be fine if they were dry over winter.

Allen, ooooh, iffy, unless you work your miracle with the copper pipe, heat tape, enclosure again at its site.
Barb

[Dean W.]

Congrats, on your palms.

Dean

[Barrie]

I'd hate to play devil's advocate, but one season is not a true indicator of robust healthy palm survival in zone 5. I know, I know, I know, ... it's always nice to enjoy a glimmer of hope, and this is certainly that.
Foliage set backs that these have endured will ultimately be their undoing. Sabal and any palm genus, need a good crown of leaves to forge forward during the coming year. A series of successive winter repeats, and the top growth can't compete with their required foliar (and overall health) needs. You'll need to provide winter protection if any hope of survival is anticipated.
I wish my 27 years of previous experinece wasn't so blunt. I've seen this many times over and it's end results.

Cheers, Barrie.

[Kansas]

THANK YOU MR. GLUMMY GUS!!!!

This is the coldest Winter we had in the last 10 years here in Topeka. However, I agree, and I think I may have to at least throw a trsh can over them next year if I want to keep good growth. I know there is a guy in Wichita Kansas that has HUGE Louisiana's, but not sure of any protection if any. But man they are BIG.

[Okanagan desert-palms]

Wes congrats. I seriously would look into what if any protection those other minors experienced through their upbringing over the years and what below freezing temps over what period of time. I know of the Oklahoma minors and was surprised at them. You might be on to something . Barrie stated getting to plant equilibrium will only sustain itself for two or three years depending on the severity of the winter. Keep me in mind for those seeds when they get older. Should be a slam dunk here in the Okanagan.

John

[Alchris]

I learned this spring while I had the top open on the shelter and the heat cables turned off, that the reflected heat from the stucco wall of the house increased the temperature in the shelter by 5* to 20* depending on the number of hours of sun and the amount of cloud cover. That would be at least 1 zone.

If there is no insulation on the stucco side of the shelter, the stucco should provide quite a lot of heat as a result of the sun warming it. The insulation will hold in the heat and protect the palm from excess winter sun (which caused a lot of frond damage in Colorado Springs). I would still put in a supplementary heat source for the periods of severe cold and cloud.

I have a hunch that if Wes had put 2" foam board on the three exposed sides and left the top open, he would have had much less frond damage. He could put a foam board roof on it when the temps were forecast to drop to -10F.

Allen

[Kansas]

I learned this spring while I had the top open on the shelter and the heat cables turned off, that the reflected heat from the stucco wall of the house increased the temperature in the shelter by 5* to 20* depending on the number of hours of sun and the amount of cloud cover. That would be at least 1 zone.

If there is no insulation on the stucco side of the shelter, the stucco should provide quite a lot of heat as a result of the sun warming it. The insulation will hold in the heat and protect the palm from excess winter sun (which caused a lot of frond damage in Colorado Springs). I would still put in a supplementary heat source for the periods of severe cold and cloud.

I have a hunch that if Wes had put 2" foam board on the three exposed sides and left the top open, he would have had much less frond damage. He could put a foam board roof on it when the temps were forecast to drop to -10F.

Allen

I already have a box made of wood only. I think I will try some insulation. Also, I was thinking of using empty 1gallon milk jugs with the bottom cut out and put that over them in the Winter (with the lid off). Think that would work?

[Alchris]

The milk carton would have a 'wall' between the stucco and the palm and would not be tight to the stucco. This would allow wind to carry the stucco's heat away. If you use the white translucent plastic jugs, they should work great as a sunshade in the spring when your palm is adjusting to full sun.


I think that if you build a 'lean to' shelter with a mostly open roof you will keep the wind from carrying away the heat that you get from the sun and stucco. It will also protect the fronds from sun burn. Make sure to seal between the house and the lean to in order to keep air movement to a minimum.

I don't know if you need insulation. It is hard to say what is necessary if the coldest that you get is -20*F. The sun will be higher in the sky than it is up here. If you get a lot of sun in the winter and your cold spells are sunny and only last for a day then painting the shelter may be enough. I'd use flat black both inside and out as it will convert any direct or reflected light into heat.

The only way to find out is to try it.

How tall were your Sabal minors before last winter?

Allen

[Kansas]

The first one, the center spear was just barely visable. It was not showing hardly anything. In fact, you can kinda see where it is black, then the green starts, thats where it was before Winter.
The second one (Desert Zone) has REALLY showed some ups. It too was barely visable, and there was no sign at all that it was going to be a split leaf.